Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hemlock Valley Recreation Meetings and Information

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hemlock Valley Recreation Meetings and Information

    Here we go again.

    Someone that represents Dual Sport and Off Road motorcycle riders should attend this meeting. For some reason the gov thinks it was me???? I know we had a couple of other reps a while back but not sure if they want to continue?

    Just the same I am in Kamloops now and can not attend. Is there someone out there that wants to participate and report back on the wisdom of our government officials that will be making decisions? Remember those on the government do not participate in any ORV activities, so if we sit back and do nothing, we can expect nothing in return.

    If you can take this on let me know and I will make the intros

    Email from Tori

    Proposed Agenda
    1. Introductions
    2. Setting the Stage

    1. Context of current situation – Hemlock MP & MDA approvals
    2. Contractual obligations of Hemlock
    3. Provincial interest in a coordinated approach to the management of Public Recreation within the resort area

    1. Identify what recreation is taking place now

    1. Mapping exercise and conversations around existing use (ATV, Snowmobile, Camping, other?)
    2. What is working well?
    3. What are the current challenges?

    1. Public Recreation Management Plan for the Hemlock CRA

    1. What are the essential elements? (ie. trail/area/zone identification, education, signage, responsibility)
    2. Identify key trails, connection & check points, staging areas

    1. Next Steps/Follow up Items


    I am hoping to bring a nice big table map showing the existing Hemlock Resort Controlled Recreation Area as well as what we have available and are aware of with regard to existing public recreation use in the area to initiate conversations.
    __________________________

    Good Afternoon,

    I am writing to request your participation in a Public Recreation Working Group for the newly approved Hemlock Resort expansion area. Many of you were involved in the Master Plan review that began in 2010 and has been ongoing over the years. The Province has approved the Hemlock Master Plan for Expansion (October 2015) and the Master Development Agreement (April 2016). During the Master Plan review, existing public recreation in the expansion area was noted as an item for future collaboration/coordination/management. As a result, the resort committed to the following:
    • Working with the local ATV groups & the Province to ensure continued public recreation opportunities as well as dedicating trails within the resort Controlled Recreation Area for year round public motorized recreation.
    • Establish a corridor for continued access that allows riders to go from the Grace Lake staging area, through the CRA accessing land to the north.
    • The resort will meet with the public recreation groups and provincial government and work towards a Public Recreation Management Plan, to be developed within two years of the date of the Master Development Agreement.


    To follow up on the requirements of the resort and the Province we would like to initiate the Public Recreation Working Group and set up an initial meeting to explain the role of the Province, the obligations of the resort and begin to understand the existing use and future needs for public recreation in the Hemlock Resort area. I have attached a draft contact list for the working group, please advise if you are not the correct contact, or if this list should be changed and/or updated in any way.


    Reference Info:


    We are proposing a meeting in the morning of June 30th sometime between 9am and noon, location to be determined depending on the location of the participants, but most likely the Chilliwack Forest, Land and Natural Resource Operations Office. Please advise if you are able to attend and once I get an idea of the level of attendance, I will formalize the meeting time, agenda and location. I look forward to hearing from you and working together on the Public Recreation Management Plan.

    Thanks,
    Tori
    ________________________________________________
    Tori Meeks |A/Sr. Manager, Major Projects | Mountain Resorts Branch
    Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations
    510 - 175 2nd Ave, Kamloops, BC V2C 5W1
    Phone: 250-371-3943 | Cell: 250-320-2791 | Fax: 250-371-3942
    Tom Timmerman
    Past President DSBC

  • #2
    Seems there is little to no interest for ORV recreation within the DSBC group as far as Hemlock is concerned? Many of you will think that this does not involve us as a user group? You could not be any further from the truth. The Government is asking for ORV recreational input, this does not happen too often.

    As a direct impact that many of you seem to have forgotten, the STS'AILES (FORMERLY HARRISON WEST FSR) runs right through this project. In fact the project runs right down to Harrison Lake.

    Without good representation we will most likely lose a great area for practice and new rider exploration.


    What we think riding is all about





    The future of escaping on two wheels if we sit back and wait for someone else to protect our ORV privileges




    Some more from the Chilliwack Recreation Advisory Group

    Hi all:


    We are giving this invitation wider than usual circulation to ensure that as many people/groups as possible have a chance to participate in the Public Recreation Working Group for the proposed Hemlock Resort expansion. The message from Tori Meeks is copied below: her email address is in the attached contact list.


    Jack


    I am writing to request your participation in a Public Recreation Working Group for the newly approved Hemlock Resort expansion area. Many of you were involved in the Master Plan review that began in 2010 and has been ongoing over the years. The Province has approved the Hemlock Master Plan for Expansion (October 2015) and the Master Development Agreement (April 2016). During the Master Plan review, existing public recreation in the expansion area was noted as an item for future collaboration/coordination/management. As a result, the resort committed to the following:
    Working with the local ATV groups & the Province to ensure continued public recreation opportunities as well as dedicating trails within the resort Controlled Recreation Area for year round public motorized recreation.
    Establish a corridor for continued access that allows riders to go from the Grace Lake staging area, through the CRA accessing land to the north.
    The resort will meet with the public recreation groups and provincial government and work towards a Public Recreation Management Plan, to be developed within two years of the date of the Master Development Agreement.

    To follow up on the requirements of the resort and the Province we would like to initiate the Public Recreation Working Group and set up an initial meeting to explain the role of the Province, the obligations of the resort and begin to understand the existing use and future needs for public recreation in the Hemlock Resort area. I have attached a draft contact list for the working group, please advise if you are not the correct contact, or if this list should be changed and/or updated in any way.

    Reference Info:
    The Master Plan is available on our internet site at - http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/in...approved-plans
    The Controlled Recreation Area for the resort can be viewed and/or shapefile downloaded using the geomark - gm-799E27EB6B7E4E898954E63BC109A18B

    We are proposing a meeting in the morning of June 30th sometime between 9am and noon, location to be determined depending on the location of the participants, but most likely the Chilliwack Forest, Land and Natural Resource Operations Office. Please advise if you are able to attend and once I get an idea of the level of attendance, I will formalize the meeting time, agenda and location. I look forward to hearing from you and working together on the Public Recreation Management Plan.

    Thanks,
    Tori
    Tom Timmerman
    Past President DSBC

    Comment


    • #3
      once you posted my picture I had to chime in.



      Seriously, I read here all the time of riders heading out to Harrison east/west across to the Pemberton valley or up to Kookopi pass and yet, not one reply to Tom's concerns for that area in over a week?

      A group that voices no concern to restricted access issues will be heard by those making the rules as just that, a mute non existing entity.
      Last edited by 04klr; 06-27-2016, 08:37 AM.
      a smart man only believes half of what he hears, a wise man knows which half.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 04klr View Post
        once you printed my picture I had to chime in.



        Seriously, I read here all the time of riders heading out to Harrison east/west across to the Pemberton valley or up to Kookopi pass and yet, not one reply to Tom's concerns for that area in over a week?

        A group that voices no concern to restricted access issues will be heard by those making the rules as just that, a mute non existing entity.
        Yes I ride the route and am taxed to death and part of my tax money goes to the rec sites on the route if you follow emerging legislation you will understand a few dirt bikers have no say in the big plan for resource roads in BC Look at Van Isle if you need to know what is happening. The province will be handing resource roads to the corporations end of story

        Comment


        • #5
          So Vortexman

          Just let them/they do what they please because we make no difference? (Remember THEY are US) You will be taxed whether you participate or not!

          Vancouver Island is a great example of government gone wrong, many years ago there was no importance (if any) given to recreation and thus the forestry companies got the land given to them. I still question if it was the government of the day, intent to GIVE the land to the forestry companies so they could sell it back to us in the future, a discussion for another day perhaps.

          You have already given up the battle for resource roads and recreation and have given it a foregone conclusion. That's a sad commentary on the future of our sport. I am so glad there are others that are fighting the good fight.

          You would be mistaken to say we as off road motorised are not represented at the table regarding the Natural Resource Road Act, it's not the best of prefered representation we may want but the ATV guys are there at the table. There was a decision made that only allowed one representative from off road motorised to sit at the table, but at least there is one seat with our name carved in it (perhaps in the wrong place).

          I can tell you that most government bureaucrats do not like confrontation, of any sort or in any numbers. So a small group can make a big difference.

          Please dont give up yet

          Tom
          Tom Timmerman
          Past President DSBC

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd be happy to go listen and provide some input, but having it in the morning of a work day kind of makes it hard for 90% of us to show up. Any way to see if they would be will to hold a second meeting on a weekend or evening when the majority of our demographic would actually be able to attend and provide some input? It looks like a nice resort, combining dirt bike trails into the plan would be pretty cool, I'd really enjoy a day of riding and still be able to ride right up to a ski resort patio pub on the bike for lunch, then carry on with another afternoon ride.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tomcycle View Post
              So Vortexman

              Just let them/they do what they please because we make no difference? (Remember THEY are US) You will be taxed whether you participate or not!

              Vancouver Island is a great example of government gone wrong, many years ago there was no importance (if any) given to recreation and thus the forestry companies got the land given to them. I still question if it was the government of the day, intent to GIVE the land to the forestry companies so they could sell it back to us in the future, a discussion for another day perhaps.

              You have already given up the battle for resource roads and recreation and have given it a foregone conclusion. That's a sad commentary on the future of our sport. I am so glad there are others that are fighting the good fight.

              You would be mistaken to say we as off road motorised are not represented at the table regarding the Natural Resource Road Act, it's not the best of prefered representation we may want but the ATV guys are there at the table. There was a decision made that only allowed one representative from off road motorised to sit at the table, but at least there is one seat with our name carved in it (perhaps in the wrong place).

              I can tell you that most government bureaucrats do not like confrontation, of any sort or in any numbers. So a small group can make a big difference.

              Please dont give up yet

              Tom
              I played politics with the big boys once. and it was a very good lesson with regard to time and resources. If a special interest group is "sexy" (refugees, alphabet people,female visible minority) this is not a requirement.

              To mount any serious input/challenge or policy draft with this would take the mobilization of many people who would otherwise be so busy paying mortgages and trying to raise kids that my statement is neither defeatist nor of resignation, just fact.

              My days of "Crusading" and tilting with windmills are over, and I choose to ride instead. So the initial comment that if one rides Harrison one is obliged in some fashion to respond or participate is quite silly I think, and I do consider myself an expert on the topic.

              Well that is that then.So off to plan Sunday's ride
              Last edited by vortexman; 06-25-2016, 02:57 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't present myself as an expert on the subject, but having been in "the system" for almost 3 decades, I can state with much certainty that decisions made at-the-top are set in stone and any round table discussions are to give the illusion that they are "listening" to the peons, or that their are "options"...when the truth is exactly the opposite.
                Like V-man said, if you're an special interest group....the flavour of the day...you have their ear, otherwise you are but a fly in the ointment.

                They KNOW that most people are too busy with their lives to get involved...that's why they pull this sort of crap!
                http://dr650rider.blogspot.ca/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well you guys seem to have said it all?

                  Let's just let them (us) do as they please because they won't listen anyway
                  Tom Timmerman
                  Past President DSBC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I understand the various perspectives, but IMO while the results are often disappointing, I think its a small investment that could yield significant returns. As r_jackson said, the scheduled meeting time is (strategically ?) inconvenient, as I think its safe to say the majority of us arent available to attend at such a time. Regardless, we cant afford to use that as an excuse.

                    I'll call Tori tomorrow and ask what other options are available, and report back.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Brief discussion with Tori reveals many groups will be present at the upcoming meeting, and minutes/mapping will be shared afterwards.

                      - intent to finalize plan within 2 years of approval (April 2018)
                      - asked if we have maps of existing trails we use, to show existing usage.
                      - we discussed including a possible tech. component (ie: Google hangouts) to record/share/reference meeting
                      - will share minutes once received.
                      - next meeting will be Sept, due to summer schedules (read: vacations)

                      If anyone can attend (this and future meetings), this would certainly be preferable, to make sure our voice/concerns are heard.

                      Link to proposed plan: http://www.gov.bc.ca/ener/popt/down/...ter%20Plan.pdf
                      Last edited by offworlder; 06-28-2016, 11:10 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tomcycle View Post
                        Well you guys seem to have said it all?

                        Let's just let them (us) do as they please because they won't listen anyway
                        A lot of us just ride and do not understand how this stuff works at all.

                        West Stave Lake got fucked over for target shooters regardless of all the surveys done regarding use of the area.....because big money Tim Hortons already had things figures out and lined up.

                        Like Vortex said we meager peasants dont mean shit in the big picture.

                        I share your frustration Tom but when ya repeatedly see you efforts meant sweet **** all in the end it sure leaves a long lasting bad taste in your mouth.

                        Unless we got some big money behind us what do we really expect to hapen?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Grove

                          I think you got it wrong, in fact I am sure you got it wrong

                          Shooters at stave did it to themselves, probably the ones that did not think it would make a difference if they cleaned up after themselves. Well I can tell you that no one stepped up to the plate to represent the shooters, not to mention the recreationalist that were represented were not very supportive of how the shooters were behaving. I have been kept up to date on the Timmies thing and they have some big money and lots of support in high places, but its still a grind for them to get what they want when the meager peasants start complaining.

                          All this starts at the ground level, planning stages. Obviously when the decisions have been made and plans are moving forward, and you (we) are Johnny come lately. What do you think is going to happen?

                          I am frustrated as too many are like you and think any effort is a wasted effort.
                          Tom Timmerman
                          Past President DSBC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            One only needs to look at the Chilliwack River Valley to see various successes brought on by the 'peasants'.
                            Not ideal, and certainly still with its share of current & anticipated challenges - but without the grassroots efforts of volunteer enthusiasts (our very own 'special interest group' comprised of folks from DSBC, GVMC, RNATV) we wouldn't have the Chipmunk nor the Tamihi OHV staging areas. Nor would we be (legally) riding in either area. Sitting at the adults table with all the other user groups + Ministry reps (on a monthly basis) has proven invaluable.
                            Deciding that we don't have / never had a chance is just too easy - and in many ways responsible for why Off-Road Motorized is in such a fragile state. We are our own enemy. Success is possible for those that 'show up'; failure is assured for those that don't.
                            If each rider just invested a couple of hours each year into these challenges I'm certain we could influence the outcomes.
                            mark

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by offworlder View Post
                              Brief discussion with Tori reveals many groups will be present at the upcoming meeting, and minutes/mapping will be shared afterwards.

                              - intent to finalize plan within 2 years of approval (April 2018)
                              - asked if we have maps of existing trails we use, to show existing usage.
                              - we discussed including a possible tech. component (ie: Google hangouts) to record/share/reference meeting
                              - will share minutes once received.
                              - next meeting will be Sept, due to summer schedules (read: vacations)

                              If anyone can attend (this and future meetings), this would certainly be preferable, to make sure our voice/concerns are heard.

                              Link to proposed plan: http://www.gov.bc.ca/ener/popt/down/...ter%20Plan.pdf
                              Thanks for checking into this Marc, very helpful. Their timing for this session is frustrating, but fortunately you've opened the door on communication (which Tori will be obliged to document).

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X