Annual DSBC Spring Newbie Ride April 30, 2017 DETAILS.

Farp

Active member
Are there GPX tracks for the routes?

That depends. If DSBC gets approval from Recreation Sites and Trails BC to host the Newbie ride then the decision regarding GPX route tracks will be up to the moderators on this forum. The problem is that under new legislation DSBC must be approved to host the event under either sec 56 or 57 of the Forest and Range Practices Act and getting such approval is a long, frustrating, and overly complex endeavour. Think about a 145 page Power Point doc, a 45 page Trail Environmental Screening Tool (TEST Doc) which is so complex that an all day workshop was recently held by RSTBC for about 2 dozen user groups - none of whom could complete the document without the help they received at the workshop. To add to the complexity the mapping information required must be done on ImapBC which does not accept GPX, KML, KMZ or similar files. In order to use ImapBC you must convert your GPX, KML, or KMZ files to shape files. But the problem I had was using Windows Explorer 10 I could not get ImapBC to open on my computer, I've tried and tried but nothing works. Besides, I have no clue what a shape file is, or how to do the conversion.

I know that the DSBC moderators have been trying very hard for the last couple of years to get this documentation approved but have been unable to do so with the result that it appears that DSBC might not be able to host the Newbie ride this year. If that's the case then there will not be a Newbie ride but we can still use this forum to organize informal trail rides like we do for the rest of the year. I have offered to lead a C/Adventure ride suitable for new riders on plated big bikes, meeting at the Tamahi Rapids staging area and using only public forest service roads and paved roads. If that's what happens then I will be able to provide GPX tracks for those who want them, bearing in mind that it will NOT be a DSBC sponsored ride. But it's much too early to make that call. The Newbie ride was scheduled for Apr 30 and I expect it will be around the middle of April before we know what the situation is going to be.

John
 

markymcd

New member
thanks for the answer John. It's a bummer that red tape is so much of a problem. Are bikes not allowed on the A/B trails anymore or is it about hosting an event on the trails? I haven't done a newbie ride for a few years. I used to have an 800 gs and now i've got a crf250l and am eager to attempt more 'trail riding'.
 

Farp

Active member
thanks for the answer John. It's a bummer that red tape is so much of a problem. Are bikes not allowed on the A/B trails anymore or is it about hosting an event on the trails? I haven't done a newbie ride for a few years. I used to have an 800 gs and now i've got a crf250l and am eager to attempt more 'trail riding'.

It's more about hosting an event on the trails, and having permission to maintain existing trails and cut new ones. I could be wrong but my understanding is that if small groups of riders get together informally to ride existing trails there's not much (for now) that they can do about it as enforcement is a real problem for the powers that be. I'm not sure that there's any prohibition against small groups riding existing trails anyway. The frustrating and maddening thing about all of this is I can remember trail riding the Chilliwack Valley in the '70s - those trails have been there at least 40 years and if they were capable of causing any kind of significant environmental damage we'd know about it by now, and there isn't any. What's worse is the trail networks cause less than 1% of the environmental harm that clear cut logging does and the clear cuts seem to regenerate themselves quite nicely after a few years, and the logging companies seem to have no problems getting permission to harvest a mature forest. It's my opinion that this issue is not really about environmental protection at all but has been raised by people who hate motorized use of forest trails and will use any excuse to make life difficult for us. I don't know if that is the case but it sure seems like it.

John
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
thanks for the answer John. It's a bummer that red tape is so much of a problem. Are bikes not allowed on the A/B trails anymore or is it about hosting an event on the trails? I haven't done a newbie ride for a few years. I used to have an 800 gs and now i've got a crf250l and am eager to attempt more 'trail riding'.

The Newbee ride takes place on Crown Land, this land belongs to the Queen, if you want to use Crown land you need the Queen's permission. The Queen being so busy has given the authority to the BC government to give people permission to use crown land and that depends on what you plan on doing.

So far so good? Great

Government in its infinite wisdom decided to mess with what was in their opinion not working. Lets just skip commercial and stick to recreation. If you have a group ie family gathering, and its less than 15 people you may go out and have fun, just follow the rules.

Now if you have a motorised group of between 15 and under 100 participants you now fall under a newer policy called the Land Use Policy "Permission" its a short 15 page policy want your own copy follow this link
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/fa...use/land-water-use/crown-land/permissions.pdf

This is all managed by the Ministry of Forests Lands and Natural Resource Operations FLNRO
Most of this policy actually makes sense, however I read this policy as restricting access to crown land. We meet all the requirements of this policy with the Newbee ride if we keep the number of participants below 100. The onlys snag we have run into is

The organized event does not conflict with existing Authorizations. Land statusmust be assessed by accessing the ILRR with a Business BCeID athttp://geobc.gov.bc.ca/rsd/ilrr/index.html or by contacting FCBC toll free at 1-877-855-3222 or visit www.frontcounterbc.gov.bc.ca to find your local office.
Note: If the land status includes a ‘Notice’, the Permission does not applyand FCBC must be contacted.

I am not a mapping guy but do have access to the ILRR layers thru my business account. Well if you know anything about the Chilliwack River Valley you will understand that there is nothing but notices and authorisations all over the routes we plan to use. Yes Forest Service Roads are considered Crown Land and we need permission.


But Wait There Is More

The staging area is a recreation area the falls under something called a Section 56 under the Forest Practices Act. Any Crown Land under a Section 56 is under a different authority Recreation Sites and Trails British Columbia RSTBC

To use the staging area we get an authorisation from RSTBC Chilliwack Forest District. this is something we have done since we started using the staging area for the newbee ride, last year authorisation was slow but it finally came.

This year several roadblocks are being presented. It is up to the RSTBC Rec Officer to decide what conditions must be met for him to issue an authorisation. This year we were presented with the requirement to use the "Land Use Policy Permission"

We have agreed and were told if we would follow the policy and provide RSTBC with the procedures we would have in place to limit the participants to under 100. He would provide us with the required authorisation. We sent the required info more than a week ago and still no authorisation.

The Recreation Officer asked for another meeting monday 13 11am but I am not holding my breath.


If I were a little more suspicious I might have to get my tin hat out and review my conspiracy theorist reports, but that would not be right, after all its our government and they are here for us............right?
 

Farp

Active member
Section 22.2 of the current BC Forest and Range Practices Act says:

[h=4]Non-industrial use of a road[/h][FONT=&quot]22.2 (1) Subject to subsections (2) to (4) and to regulations respecting roads made under the Industrial Roads Act, a road that is[/FONT]
(a) a forest service road, or
(b) constructed or maintained by the holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence
may be used by any person, other than a person referred to in section 22.1, without charge. (22.1 refers to industrial users)
(2) The
(a) district manager, for a forest service road, or
(b) holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence, for a road under the permit or licence,
may take action under subsection (3) if
(c) use of the road under subsection (1) would likely
(i) cause significant damage to the road,
(ii) cause significant sediment delivery, or
(iii) endanger property, public health or public safety, or
(d) the presence on the road of a vehicle or animal would likely cause damage to the road or environment or endanger life or property.
(3) In the circumstances described in subsection (2),
(a) the district manager, for a forest service road, may
(i) close the road or restrict its use, or
(ii) remove a vehicle or an animal from the road at the expense of the owner of the vehicle or animal, and
(b) the holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence, for a road under the permit or licence,
(i) with the prior consent of the minister, may close the road or restrict its use, or
(ii) may remove a vehicle or an animal from the road at the expense of the owner of the vehicle or animal.
(4) The minister, in accordance with the regulations, may specify types of expenses that must be paid to
(a) government for a road referred to in subsection (1) (a),
(b) holders referred to in subsection (1) (b), or
(c) other persons who meet prescribed requirements
by a person, other than a person referred to in section 22.1, who uses a road or class of roads.

The way I read this regulation is that the BC Gov't has granted permission for any person to use a forest service road. The roads we'll be using for the ride on April 30 are all open to, and used regularly by the general public - I see them camping along the bench road all the time. As far as adventure riding on forest service roads is concerned I think this answers the question - we're allowed to do it.

John
 

markymcd

New member
It's quite the hornets nest. I remember way back when I started mountain biking how negatively we were viewed and it just took a couple of people to complain to create massive issues. You were almost felt to feel like criminals. And as it stands, every mountain biker, dirt biker / adventure rider and 4x4 enthusiast that I have known have been very respectful and grateful for our access. and clean up after ourselves.

Thanks for your info and feedback Tom and John.
 

black99S

Member
Going to request the day off work. Will I need a skid plate for my DR if I do the c route?
No, you won't need a skid plate for your DR650 on the Newbie C-route.
But if you plan to ride the (highly recommended) Loose Screw C or C+ I'd advise you get a skid plate, decent (Acerbis) hand guards and knobs (D606 rear, MT21 front) fitted. Then after a good ride with no sphincter moments, you can relax, drink beer, lounge in the river, eat steak, and spend money on raffle draws for stuff you will never win :)
 

Farp

Active member
No, you won't need a skid plate for your DR650 on the Newbie C-route.
But if you plan to ride the (highly recommended) Loose Screw C or C+ I'd advise you get a skid plate, decent (Acerbis) hand guards and knobs (D606 rear, MT21 front) fitted. Then after a good ride with no sphincter moments, you can relax, drink beer, lounge in the river, eat steak, and spend money on raffle draws for stuff you will never win :)

You never need a skid plate until you hit a rock and smash the bottom out of your crankcase. Problem is you never know when that's going to happen. Here's a pic of a KLR that had a hole punched in the crankcase (with the stock KLR skid plate installed) on a road not too different from what will be encountered on the Newbie C route. This is what happens to bikes without adequate skid plates, it can happen anywhere when you're off pavement and it's always a disaster. The probability that this will happen to you on the Newbie is low but if you continue to ride off road without a skid plate the probability of it happening increases accordingly. If you are going to ride your bike off road you need a skid plate. They're not that expensive so just put one on and don't worry about it.


Gordons_broken_crankcase.jpg


John
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
I think we need a Lawyer to wade through this?

Wouldn't it be nice it Rec Sites and Trails BC was on the side of recreation and help us achieve our goal of getting out from behind our computer screens and enjoy our forests?




Section 22.2 of the current BC Forest and Range Practices Act says:

Non-industrial use of a road

22.2 (1) Subject to subsections (2) to (4) and to regulations respecting roads made under the Industrial Roads Act, a road that is
(a) a forest service road, or
(b) constructed or maintained by the holder of a road permit or a woodlot licence
may be used by any person, other than a person referred to in section 22.1, without charge. (22.1 refers to industrial users)

The way I read this regulation is that the BC Gov't has granted permission for any person to use a forest service road. The roads we'll be using for the ride on April 30 are all open to, and used regularly by the general public - I see them camping along the bench road all the time. As far as adventure riding on forest service roads is concerned I think this answers the question - we're allowed to do it.

John
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Perhaps we have some success

We think we know where the goalpost is and we are going to take a shot.

With any luck the Newbee ride will have a few administrational changes but will continue as before.:cross:

Standby for more information as soon as we get it
 

North

Active member
I have been calling the Contact Person that my MLA gave me concerning the Newbie Ride. I just found out it's the wrong number. I guess that's why he never called back, but I do have the current phone number now.

Rick
 
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tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
I have been calling the Contact Person that my MLA gave me concerning the Newbie Ride. I just found out it's the wrong number. I guess that's why he never called back, but I do have the current phone number now.

Rick

We may have cleared this hurdle but still wont know for a couple of days, if we do I will be the first to post here
 

M.C.A.T.

New member
Is there a description of what a rider faces on the A/B ride? I've been riding FSR's since last summer and ready to challenge myself - but not really ready to go log hopping.
 

LordEndo

Member
Staff member
Is there a description of what a rider faces on the A/B ride? I've been riding FSR's since last summer and ready to challenge myself - but not really ready to go log hopping.

Stick to the B loop and make sure you jump in with a couple of other people if you're not with a group. Strongly recommend that you get some knobbies on your DRZ if they aren't there already and either get rim locks on there so you can run 11psi, or keep it to 15psi if no rim locks. Will make your day go much easier..... Great time to spread your wings a bit though! Lots of folks who will be glad to help you through.
 

Cyclic

Member
Unga I am headed out for my first time and planning on doing the B route, feel free to join me and whoever else we can wrangle up.

If you get a chance go ride some of the "More difficult" trails at Blue Mountain that would be what I think would be comparable to a B route fopr some sections. Skid plate, must have and good tires for sure.

Is there a description of what a rider faces on the A/B ride? I've been riding FSR's since last summer and ready to challenge myself - but not really ready to go log hopping.
 

kenf

New member
If you get a chance go ride some of the "More difficult" trails at Blue Mountain that would be what I think would be comparable to a B route fopr some sections. Skid plate, must have and good tires for sure.

I'm not sure what you consider the "more difficult" trails at mcnutt, but when I've ridden the B loop on some of the past newbie rides, there has been nothing harder than the easiest trails mcnutt has to offer (License Plate, Joe Poke, Woods Pass, Sandman). If you can ride Pristine to Wedgie at mcnutt, you should fine the B newbie pretty fun and reasonable. Granted I missed the last couple of newbies, but there was nothing on it that would be diffcult by mcnutt standards in my experience!

KF
 

Cyclic

Member
Good to know thanks, I have never ridden the Noobie ride either , I have only ridden McNutt trails like Loggers, 93X and Hemp Hill and they seemed like the easier offerings single track there but marked as more difficult.
 
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