Back-Country Power Sports Coalition of BC

tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
For those of you that spend some of your time reading my posts (sometime rants) you might recognise the following:

"Back-Country Power Sports Coalition of BC"

This name popped up about two years ago, as a guy that has been involved in the off road scene for many years I never knew there was a new kid on the block. After some research it seem this "new" group was made up of the same old faces. ATVBC, BCSF and BCORMA. It was strange at the time when I inquired about this coalition, I got the runaround from BCORMA and total silence from the other two partners.

So Fast Forward to today, (I mean yesterday October 27 2016) I find this new off road web page http://bcpsc.ca/ "Back-Country Power Sports Coalition of BC"

I have a few concerns regarding this "coalition", their site is a little lacking on details (does this sound familiar?) If you go to their site they make some pretty large claims

We are BC Provincial Recreation Power Sports Federations working on your behalf together to advance our sports.


Present BC's Power Sports recreation sector as a strong and unified voice to Government
Keep current of Legislation, Regulations, and Policy that affect ORV
Negotiate with Government and Industry to preserve and grow opportunities for Back-Country Power Sports Recreation
Work to grow and strengthen BC's Trail Community
Click to expand...

Who decided that these guys would be our representative to government and negotiate on our behalf?

How are these guys funded?

How does this affect DSBC? We are already treated like the bastard child at BCORMA. With this new coalition does our voice or concerns become that much further removed from the discussions?

Presently DSBC is a paid up member of BCORMA, but we don't appoint an official director (because of personal liability issues that BCORMA must address) we do have someone sit in at the meetings. DSBC had no input or has been informed on this new(ish) coalition.

Just maybe, its time for DSBC and its 3000+ followers (members) head out and represent ourselves?
 
O

offworlder

Moderator
Tom, thanks for your vigilance, and for bringing this to our attention. (we're all paying attention, right ? :confused:)

This is most disconcerting: a skeletal one pager website appears, claiming to represent "BC Provincial Recreation Power Sports Federations", yet with no input from (all) the stakeholders it claims to represent ! I absolutely agree that we should leverage the size of our membership, and represent ourselves. What would the ramifications/requirements be ?
 
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tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
I have not given it much thought what the ramifications would be. I am sure that BCORMA would not be happy as we would be taking a significant number of riders away from what they claim to represent.

Of course, if DSBC has an appetite to represent the Dual Sport / Adventure motorcyclists, it would require a lot of support and money. There is no funding possibilities at this time for such a representative thru industry. DSBC would have to become self funding for such endeavours, the only way would be from membership.

However this would be an membership driven association opposed to a club driven association like BCORMA

A lot to think about.
 
H

hooter

Member
Farp

Farp

Active member
Ti welder said:
Didn't buy a trail pass this year, For the first time since the whole thing started. Not a dirt biker any more, life has changed since those days....Be more than happy to put that towards something worthwhile as someone needs to unite all involved in keeping riding areas open, and more importantly access to crown land and the fsr's/back country! Without access there is no accountability for logging practises ect.
Click to expand...

I agree with Scott on this issue. I bought a trail pass this year (even though I gave up riding trails a couple of years ago) because I thought it was the right thing to do, and I want to support our sport and the guys who ride single track. But we need to be concerned about how our trail pass money is being spent, and whether the money spent on trail passes (which seems to benefit only dirt riders) is of any benefit to dual sport riders.

According to Tom, here's the breakdown of BCORMA's finances:

From 2014 BCORMA AGM
· Total income for 2013: $81,060.00
· $46,700 ED wages for 2013 (was $68,000 for 2012)
· BCORMA had a net surplus of $4,420.00 as of Jan 31 2014.

If my memory serves me correctly - when we buy a $60 trail pass from DSBC BCORMA gets $40 and DSBC gets $20. My understanding is that if you buy your trail pass directly from BCORMA the cost is $40 so my assumption is that BCORMA gets $40 per trail pass regardless of where it is purchased. I don't know what other revenue sources BCORMA has but my assumption is that it's pretty much trail passes and member club dues. Without knowing the member club dues total it's impossible to estimate the number of trail passes sold but one would think it would be in excess of 1000 trail passes. It is also my understanding that DSBC has somewhere between 3000 and 4000 members so it seems reasonable that a lot of trail passes were purchased through DSBC, perhaps the majority of them. If that's the case then DSBC is contributing a lot of money to BCORMA and it appears that we don't get much benefit from it. If someone can correct or confirm these assumptions it would be much appreciated.

The bottom line is we DSBCers need to determine how much benefit we get out of the $40 trail pass we purchase each year. For me, the answer is zero because I no longer ride trails and am mainly concerned with adventure type riding on public FSRs and long distance touring. But there are many DSBC riders who do ride trails and we need to be aware of how beneficial BCORMA is to them. So, here's the $64 question "What has BCORMA done for dual sport riding in this province?" I suspect that with our large membership we'd be better off going it alone, or partnering with organizations who share our riding preferences and frustrations with BCORMA. I, for one, would be happy to stop buying trail passes and, instead, pay that money directly to DSBC. How much help did BCORMA provide for us when we had the Belle Acres problem? As far as I know we were alone fighting that one. Are there any riding areas in the lower mainland that were established and/or maintained by BCORMA, or required BCORMA's help in keeping them open?

I'm not trying to bash BCORMA here but I think these are important questions and I have no idea what the answers are, but it seems to me, right now, that we'd be much better off to opt out of BCORMA and put our money into our own organization. We have a lot of old retired folk in DSBC (ahem) and I'm sure some of us wouldn't mind spending some of our time on DSBC issues. We could use the money to cover expenses and at least be sure that when they represent us at public meetings they are focussing on DSBC issues and not ignoring us in favour of dirt bike concerns, as it appears that's what BCORMA is doing.

John

 
D

DirtClunker

Active member
I am happy that BCORMA has gotten a bunch of trail stuff happening. Over on the Island they have helped with setting up Tansky. Maybe they even helped with setting up Whiskey creek - I am not so sure about that though.

What miffs me is the lack of disclosure and communications. It sure seems like an autocratic set up. The board has very little power or control (or even desire to do anything about anything). Not impressed. They way those fockers handled the OHV act sends me to the forkin moon. Zero communication to the clubs. they just went ahead and did it. Then then blamed it on a gag order from the govt. Then we find out the govt said "there was no gag order, they could still talk and get input from the clubs". Sheesh - this just fries my ass.


I think we should take to focus away from trail building and focus purely on access. Clubs will build trails. But if we lose access we wont have anyplace to to build anything.

We need, and should pay someone, to be an advocate for OHV areas for responsible riding.


OK I have a question: I saw the head of BCORMA driving around in a nice new truck. Is that truck his? Or was it paid for from BCORMA funds?

I smell a god damn rat here.
 
tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
In all honesty, when we (I was there too) started BCORMA, trails were a big part of the reason for BCORMA. Although we always thought that BCORMA should primarily be an advocate for dirt bikers and land access. Being a recognised provincial federation, allowed BCORMA to apply for trail building funds thru the NTC. The National Trails Coalition (sound familiar?) NTC gets federal funding from time to time and the only way to access this funding is to be a recognised provincial federation

They did change the rules up that only the clubs could apply for funding but had to go thru BCORMA. Unfortunately in true BCORMA fashion, the information regarding the claimed 500K of trail funds for 2016 is only fluff with little or no follow up. What was 500K spent on?

I am not doubting the figures but you know what they say about figures? something about figures don't lie but .....? As usual a little more transparency required, with an easy way to find information, other than getting burned for asking basic questions.

I know for a fact that managing these trail funds is a monumental task that takes lots of time, and that time is being taken away from the advocacy component of BCORMA, It does make some sense as money is always of a major concern, where advocacy does not produce much cash in hand.
 
tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Well surprise surprise

BCORMA sent out their latest newsletter? Nov 1 2016. Its a short newsletter so let me just past the entire contents here

Back-Country Power Sports Coalition of BC working for BC riders

The British Columbia Off-Road Motorcycle Association (BCORMA) is pleased to announce that the Back-Country Power Sports Coalition of BC (BCPSC) meets regularly to discuss matters of mutual interest.


The BCPSC consists of BCORMA in partnership with the British Columbia Snowmobile Federation and the Quad Riders ATV Association of BC Association, representing off-road vehicle enthusiasts of BC.


We are currently working on several initiatives including managing the Provincial ORV Trails Fund, youth safety education programs, and input to the Natural Resource Road Act legislation, just to name a few!


Together we are stronger, our voices and the synergy of our actions more powerful!


For further info please visit www.bcpsc.ca
Click to expand...
 
tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
There is a need for ORV trial services for all the ORV user groups ie staging areas, toilets, garbage pu, camping, trail maintenance etc.


Using a portion of the ORV registration fees is a good way to create a fund that all users (except 4x4) put into. I, you and a lot of people here already put into our sport, but there are way more individuals that for one reason or another do not put anything in. This is a good way to collect a little from a lot of users.


But who or what group should manage or advise government how to spend those funds?


*ATVBC- individual membership one membership one vote unknow how many members, but appears to be open to all who want to participate, individual or club.


*BCORMA club memberships only, BODs are appointed by the clubs, does not have individual membership, unclear how many members all the member clubs have but expect less than 10 percent of the total dirt bike riders. must belong to a BCORMA member club one Club = one vote


*BCFS, not sure but looks like club memberships only, similar to BCORMA. Looks like they have a good buy in from the clubs (about 70 clubs listed) and the clubs represent a large percentage of the total riders (but I could be wrong as there is little information on the numbers they claim to represent.


*4X4ABC Lots of members but only a small percentage actually have ORV specific vehicles IMPORTANT NOTE the 4x4 gus do not belong to the BCPSC, I understand they have yet to be invited


A coalition of these groups to advise (force) the government to recognise our chosen ORV sport(s) would be something I could get behind. but the objective of the coalition and goals should be clearly set out, and when the goals are met, it will be time to set new goals or disband the coalition

I have notice the the Backcountry Powersports Coalition has changed the objectives on their main page, Still pretty all encompassing but better than before


The Backcountry Power Sports Coalition represents the interests of the (BCSF),(BCORMA)(ATVBC) which combined represent the motorized recreational users of British Columbia.
Click to expand...


I had a real problem with this claim However this BCPS Coalition has already made the above claim to government
Quote:
represent the motorized recreational users of British Columbia.
Click to expand...



with an official letter You can read it yourself in the link below
http://www.atvbc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Letter-to-Minister-Thomson-Signed-Oct-2016.pdf



If you think that this claim is legitimate, then I am just the conspiracy theorist you have suspected I always have been, If like me you do not agree with this claim, it might be time to let not only our provincial federation know we disagree with this but force them to retract this official claim, your silence is your approval.
 
tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
A few updates

did a little more research, with no help from any of the bcpsc members

the bcpsc was formed back in feb 2014
I started asking questions about these guys, who are they and how did they come to be. I got the usual from BCORMA......silence. Terry W from ATV came to the coalition's defence but ultimately admitted that is was probably rolled out too soon and inappropriately. Then the BCPSC disappeared.



For some reason the BCSPC got resurrected a few months ago, I suspect it was for money, particularly the potential for ORV registration funds.

The BCSPC is not a registered society or business, Just have an MOU with 3 of the ORV associations

The BCSPC claims to "Negotiate with Government and Industry to preserve and grow opportunities for Back-Country Power Sports Recreation"

On their first official correspondence with government they claim to "represent the motorized recreational users of British Columbia"
For the full letter follow this link http://www.atvbc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Letter-to-Minister-Thomson-Signed-Oct-2016.pdf

The Kicker (The Money)
"This letter signifies that the members of the BCPSC would like to work jointly with Government to
develop the terms of reference, program policies and ultimately be the key stakeholder in the ongoing
management of the ORV Trail Fund."


Why all the secrecy?

These guys want to manage our money, they should have asked first.
 
O

offworlder

Moderator
Unreal. You're sleuthing skills are greatly appreciated Tom.

So, how then do we "take back" our own voice ? Who do we call and/or write to to make it crystal clear we were not consulted, do not approve, and do not want some ambiguous entity claiming to represent us ?
 
tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
I am not really sure what action to take at this moment, other than to let BCORMA know that this whole Back Country Powersports Coalition seems a little suspect, best is to sent an email to the president of bcorma Ken Mc [email protected] and cc the Executive Director [email protected]

Tell them you are confused because of the lack of transparency and lack of information delivered to the BCORMA member clubs particularly DSBC. DSBC has been a supporter of BCORMA from Day One, it would only be appropriate that BCORMA advice all supporting clubs of this new coalition and its objectives. And while you are all at it, tell BCORMA that you want DSBC back at the table with a vote, please its been more than two years that the DSBC directorate advised BCORMA to deal with its financial obligations that a director of BCORMA must take responsibility for that liability.

Don't believe them when they tell you that all the information was available to DSBC, without digging this information was not available. Also if they respond with something like "DSBC has a place at the table" thats only if we want the dsbc appointment to take on the legal responsibility for a BCORMA liability they had no control of.

I have been told that dual sport riders don't share my concerns. If you send bcorma an email make sure to post that you did here, otherwise I will hear that no one from DSBC was concerned. Also make sure you talk to other DSBC members and have them send a simple email to BCORMA

T
 
F

Flyman

New member
Tom.
First of all thanks for the great work you do.

I'm not really wanting to be involved in the meetings and leg work myself.
But if you do find a good way to get us the Dual sport riders heard I would be happy to write a yearly cheque for say $250 in support.
 
tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Never got the support that I was hoping for, soooooooo

We will stick with BCORMA as our off road representative

This does not mean the DSBC can not create its on alliances with other associations as we see fit ie 4x4abc and ATVBC
 
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