Bcorma kicked off orv jag

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
OH OH I did not catch my error here, this should read that one of BCORMAs representatives

With all the complaining about BCORMA being too quite on the issue of Bill 13 the ORV ACT, it seems that the government in its wisdom has decided that BCORMA has divulged too much privileged information to their members. http://bcorma.ca/node/1531

This has gotten one of BCORMAs representatives removed from the ORV JAG and now we have to trust the likes of Nature BC and Trails BC to look after dirt bikers interests.

Below is the information that the government did not want us to know

BCORMA negotiated:
(This section has been deleted at Government staff demand. We are not allowed to make public any item of discussion that was ever discussed in the JAG, including all the issues that BCORMA worked on on behalf of dirt bikers. I have been dismissed from the Off-Road Vehicle Joint Advisory Group without recourse due to these removed bullet points.)
• Reduced youth rider supervisor age down from 25 years old to 19 years old with a valid driver's license
• An “allowance” for taxes due on private sales before July 2010
• Ability to cross roads at legal crossings
• Appropriate vehicle ID and placement by vehicle type. That means for dirt bikes we can mount our identification on our front number plate. While we continue to push for decals on our fork tubes, this is better than a rear mounted plate.
• No required lighting except under adverse or after-hours light conditions.
• Required lighting for dirt bikes would be limited to a portable strap on light that allows other vehicles to see you.
• Youth riding age for Crown Lands at six years old, not sixteen as proposed by other groups. The Government has insisted that youth riders be properly supervised and riding in a safe manner.
• No requirement for 3rd party insurance to ride on Crown Lands under the ORV Act. FSRs still require 3rd party insurance and a driver's license

These are items we (dirt bikers) asked BCORMA as clubs to bring to the ORV JAG table for discussion. Somehow the government has decided our instructions to our representatives is confidential?

If I were not such a conspiracy theorist I would think I here the train whistle blowing, we are about to be railroaded

T
 
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BCP

New member
I just sent a note to my MLA regarding this:

Dear Laurie,
I am writing you in regards to the recent developments of Bill 13, the ORV act.
I am a resident of Hope, and am an active outdoors enthusiast. Amongst my many pastimes I include hiking, mountain biking, and riding my dirt bike. It has come to my attention that the BCORMA has been removed from the joint advisory committee. While there may have been a perceived breach of confidentiality & sharing of information, to completely remove the only advocate group actively looking out for the interests of the dirt biking community is a completely absurd move. It undermines the legitimacy of the act and creates an environment of persecution & distrust amongst user groups.
I strongly feel that our interests are being pushed to the side with no real recourse available. Please do something to have our voice reinstated to the process & to renew our faith and trust in the system.
I look forwards to a response, & thankyou for your assistance in this matter.
Regards,
 
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offworlder

Moderator
Well written BCP. This is indeed absurd. And now we have to fight to reinstate the very entity that has left us in the dark, although we now know it was the govt. doing the muzzling !

EVERYONE - please write your MLA as per BCP's letter above, insisting that BCORMA be returned to the ORV JAG:
https://www.leg.bc.ca/mla/3-1-1.htm
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Posted on the BCORMA facebook page December 03 2014

We are being asked to step up to the plate and do something. Even you Adventure riders better pay attention to these new rules, as these laws will affect our ability to ride on crown land, we are considered dirt bikers by the non motorized community and will be treated as such.

PLEASE take a few minutes out of you day and write you MLA and tell Him/Her what you think

Please see BCORMA's revised newsletter (http://bcorma.ca/node/1531) for an update on the current Off-Road Vehicle Joint Advisory Group situation.We are asking any and all dirt bikers, quaders, and sledders to contact their MLA. Discuss your sport(s), how important they are to you, and why you care about the coming mandatory ORV registration regulations and policies. Talk about the plates, plus how we need a fully transparent public discussion about these issues that will greatly affect our sport for years to come.
With an estimated 200,000 ORV in BC and $1 billion/yr in spending, we can make a difference. That's a lot of passion and votes.
Peter Sprague, MSc.
Executive Director


BC Off-Road Motorcycle Association
 

LordEndo

Member
Staff member
David Eby (Vancouver Point-Grey) has my email.

Off topic David Eby was my neighbour in Kitchener Ontario growing up - he was one of the neighbourhood rats when I was a teenager. He must owe me a favour for something I'm thinking.....
 

LordEndo

Member
Staff member
My version:

Dear Mr. Gibson,

I’m writing you with a number of concerns regarding recent developments on the ORV JAG and of Bill 13 of the ORV act.


I am a resident of Mission, a business owner, and an active outdoors enthusiast in many pursuits that include mountain biking, dual-sport riding, trials off road motorcycling, hiking, fishing and camping.


My first issue is with the transparency of the ORV JAG. There is a non-communicate ‘gag’ order on the participating user group representatives. I believe it is paramount that our reps be able to communicate freely with their user groups to ensure the best possible representation of those user groups. I am deeply concerned that the advisory group, which plays an integral part to developing legislation, is not transparent. Why? My voice cannot be heard! Nor can the voices of 200,000 other two wheel motorized ORV users in BC.


My second issue, which is a direct result of the lack of transparency of the ORV JAG, is with Bill 13. The requirement for a metal license plate on a trials motorcycle, a dirt bike, or a child’s off road vehicle is dangerous. The edges of the plate will (this is not a maybe) lacerate the rider during a fall. A yearly renewed sticker would be far more suitable. There are a number of other points in Bill 13 that need to be massaged. The intent of the legislation is positive, but the implementation details are poorly thought out.


The third issue is that BCORMA has been removed from the JAG. While there may have been a perceived breach of confidentiality (to a confidentiality agreement that should not be in place), to completely remove the only advocate group actively representing the interests of off road motorcyclists in BC is absurd. This is not democratic process. I am deeply disappointed in the actions of those involved.


Please get involved and assist those of us who’s needs are no longer being considered.


Regards,
 

Dorky

Moderator
I just spoke with Vera Vukelich. She assured me that BCORMA has not been removed from the JAG. For a number of reasons which seem to relate to inaccuracies in the original BCORMA ORV posting, Peter Sprague is no longer on the JAG. My understanding is that Ken McLelland is still on the JAG and is looking for an alternate to replace Peter. I may speak to Ken tonight and will try to verify. Vera assured me that BCORMA continues to have a strong and welcome voice on the JAG.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
There seems to be some double talk going on here.

I may not be biggest fan of BCORMA or Peter S we have our differences of opinion and how we would go about doing things but....................................

When the government decided to kick Peter off of the JAG, they kicked our representative off the JAG. Peter has a huge wealth of knowledge with his 6+ years of his involvement on this JAG. BCORMA has a huge investment with Peter on this JAG, not only with time but with money. It should be BCORMAs decision on who will represent them, in turn represent us.

Because of all the secrecy of this JAG, who is Ken going to find that has the knowledge that Peter brought to the table? I call BS on the move of the government.

Lets take a look at why Peter got kicked off, by his own admission from the BCORMA facebook page

Kitt Stringer asked Peter Sprague,
how much of the reason you got booted has to do with you posting Veras private blackberry number up online? If we are going to fight the fact our representative got booted off the jag, we need all the info out in the open.

Peter Sprague Response
1. I asked riders to write and meet with their MLA to voice a dislike for 5x8 metal plates. This started it.
2. Posting Vera's public BB number that is embedded in her email signature
3. Points in newsletter, especially the fact that I mention 25 yrs old minimum as a discussion point for supervisors.
This is the part of the News Release that Peter posted on the BCORMA site

This is what the government wanted to be removed from the BCORMA Release

• Reduced youth rider supervisor age down from 25 years old to 19 years old with a valid driver's license
• An “allowance” for taxes due on private sales before July 2010
• Ability to cross roads at legal crossings
• Appropriate vehicle ID and placement by vehicle type. That means for dirt bikes we can mount our identification on our front number plate. While we continue to push for decals on our fork tubes, this is better than a rear mounted plate.
• No required lighting except under adverse or after-hours light conditions.
• Required lighting for dirt bikes would be limited to a portable strap on light that allows other vehicles to see you.
• Youth riding age for Crown Lands at six years old, not sixteen as proposed by other groups. The Government has insisted that youth riders be properly supervised and riding in a safe manner.
• No requirement for 3rd party insurance to ride on Crown Lands under the ORV Act. FSRs still require 3rd party insurance and a driver's license
 

Bones

Member
Letter sent to My MLA Bill Routley. I hope they get enough feedback from us to listen to our side of the story.
Greg
 

Clay

New member
Aside from what kind of plate we have ie: plastic vs. metal. What other decisions need to be made regarding this matter?
 

LordEndo

Member
Staff member
Aside from what kind of plate we have ie: plastic vs. metal. What other decisions need to be made regarding this matter?

See Tom's points above. For me - that's a pretty good summary of the key issues and where they're at.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
See Tom's points above. For me - that's a pretty good summary of the key issues and where they're at.

It is very important that if government is making decisions that involve specific user groups that they at least have proper representation from those same groups.

If I did not know any better I would think that this is a power play by some bureaucrats, someone did not like what was being said and that someone will be cut off. I cant stress enough that BCORMA and the others (motorised representatives by the way) that have left the JAG had a huge investment of time and money into this. If we don't get involved the greens will have their way you will start hearing this term "Non Mechanised Recreation vs Mechanized Recreation" you trials riders and mountain bikers better remember this too as you will get lumped into the latter group
 

cactusreid

Active member
i also emailed todd and vera, and reminded them that they are elected by the people for the people. keeping things secret from the general population, is not in my playbook for general elected politicians!
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Just to remind everyone, this is a list of the participants on the ORV JAG. Its as complete as I can find at this time.

Currently, ORV JAG members include:


Paid Government Representatives
1. Union of BC Municipalities (UBCM).
2. Insurance Corporation of BC,


Non Motorized
1. Trails BC, http://www.trailsbc.ca/
2. Grasslands Conservation Council of BC, http://www.bcgrasslands.org/
3. BC Nature, http://www.bcnature.ca/


Non Motorized Commercial Operations
1. Backcountry Lodges of BC, http://www.backcountrylodgesofbc.com/
2. BC Cattlemen’s Association http://www.cattlemen.bc.ca/
3. Wilderness Tourism Association http://www.wilderness-tourism.bc.ca/


Commercial Operations
1. Guide Outfitters Association of BC, http://www.goabc.org/
2. HeliCat Canada, http://www.helicatcanada.com/
3. Automotive Retailers Association (Power-sport Division), http://www.ara.bc.ca/
4. BC Commercial Snowmobile Operators Association, http://www.snowmobilebritishcolumbia.com/
5. Private Forest Landowners Association, http://www.pfla.bc.ca/


Outdoor Associations that recognize Motorized Use
1. BC Wildlife Federation, http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/
2. Outdoor Recreation Council, http://orcbc.ca/


Off Highway Vehicle Associations
1. Association of BC Snowmobile Clubs, http://abcsnow.ca/
2. BC Snowmobile Federation, http://bcsf.org/
3. BC Off-Road Motorcycle Association, http://www.bcorma.ca/
4. Quad Rider’s Association of BC (ATVBC), http://www.atvbc.ca/
 

Dorky

Moderator
Because of all the secrecy of this JAG, who is Ken going to find that has the knowledge that Peter brought to the table? I call BS on the move of the government.
Yes, a replacement is required for Peter. Who do we know who is active in the motorcycle community, has tons of knowledge on these subjects, understands bikes and riders, is well spoken and vocal, has experience dealing with the various government bodies, and is not afraid to say what they think about these issues? ? ?
 
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