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Bcorma kicked off orv jag
- Thread starter tomcycle
- Start date
Ti welder
New member
Well said
I have sticker 0007, proud to have supported this since day one.
We are just starting to see the benefit of this starting to pay off. Would have thought mandatory liability insurance should have been more important than a metal plate but who am I to say?
I have read about these transparent worlds, mostly in science fiction
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cactusreid
Active member
there are lots of us watching/reading and trying to absorb what will be in our futures! thanks to all of you folks on the front lines, we really do appreciate your efforts!
Good question, what is in our future?
I have no doubt that everyone that is involved in our sport whether it be in a local club, DSBC, PNWMA or BCORMA, all these volunteers are there for the right reasons. I question no one's ethics.
Lets face it, if you go to the BCORMA site there is nothing about its operations, in fact much of the information is outdated and incorrect. The newsletters are a welcome find in the email, but have nothing of much substance.
For me, I still support BCORMA. I am not particularly happy with their performance, but thats probably because its impossible to find out what they are doing. Just like politics, I got out and voted, I also continue to purchase my trail pass, so I have the right to some answers.
I have no doubt that everyone that is involved in our sport whether it be in a local club, DSBC, PNWMA or BCORMA, all these volunteers are there for the right reasons. I question no one's ethics.
Lets face it, if you go to the BCORMA site there is nothing about its operations, in fact much of the information is outdated and incorrect. The newsletters are a welcome find in the email, but have nothing of much substance.
For me, I still support BCORMA. I am not particularly happy with their performance, but thats probably because its impossible to find out what they are doing. Just like politics, I got out and voted, I also continue to purchase my trail pass, so I have the right to some answers.
Here is some free advice, taken from the BCORMA agm minutes this past May 2014. Hopefully BCORMA has been working on these points over the past 6 months
- BCORMA to be “answer provider” to disseminate accurate information to member clubs & TP holders.
- meet with local MLAs & MPs to discuss recreational riding issues & keeping trail networks open
- need to improve communication, Q&A with members
- define & communicate BCORMA values
- need to raise awareness of BCORMA.
Remember
"don't feed the trolls", but please feed your supporters
"don't feed the trolls", but please feed your supporters
Farp
Active member
As far as I'm concerned you cannot improve on the truth and a secret is just a step away from a lie. From what I've been able to gather from this thread it was the government imposing a gag order on the JAG meetings that prevented BCORMA from informing its members about the progress they were making. In fact, Peter was expelled for not obeying the gag order to the gov'ts satisfaction.
What I'd like to know is what right the gov't has to decide who should attend the meetings on behalf of the various user groups, which is basically what they are doing when they kick someone out for not obeying them, and what right they have to tell the JAG reps what information they can give the people they represent. The people in government are our elected servants, at least that's the way it's supposed to work. When the gov't starts telling JAG reps what they can and cannot tell their members and unilaterally removes a rep from the JAG because he did not obey their instructions then the democratic process has been thwarted. This looks like a dictatorial process disguised as a democratic one - and it stinks! I don't fault BCORMA because of this mess, I put it all on the government.
John
What I'd like to know is what right the gov't has to decide who should attend the meetings on behalf of the various user groups, which is basically what they are doing when they kick someone out for not obeying them, and what right they have to tell the JAG reps what information they can give the people they represent. The people in government are our elected servants, at least that's the way it's supposed to work. When the gov't starts telling JAG reps what they can and cannot tell their members and unilaterally removes a rep from the JAG because he did not obey their instructions then the democratic process has been thwarted. This looks like a dictatorial process disguised as a democratic one - and it stinks! I don't fault BCORMA because of this mess, I put it all on the government.
John
Victoria Supermoto
New member
Reasons to have a "gag order"...
If you are working on a law that could prove to be unpopular using a gag order you can control the people it affects so when the people do not have information on said proposed law while it is being sorted out it can be passed with out public input.
By placing a gag order on a situation you know that public opinion will not support your addenda. You can involve a group and refer to that group as "speaking for public interest" while placing a gag order on the situation making it so that you do not have to include the public.
A few problems with BCORMA that I can see:
If BCORMA is involved with Bill 13 and some of the people are drawing a wadge from the bills outcome then I see a conflict of interest as in why would you bite the hand the feeds you.
A clear lack of communication concerning anything to do with Bill 13 Given that BCORMA has been working on this since early 2000 something (more then 3 years) there has been ample opportunity to communicate and bring issues to those bill 13 would affect yet a clear decision was made not to.
Ken and peter are not the people to have running this due to how they interact with the public (this is drived from how they have been communicating on line and particularly Ken due to how he has been replying to people on line peter from his complete comunicative absence on all of this)
Do I agree with what BCORMA and Bill 13 are doing yes and no. I agree that registration needs to be done to fight theft I do not agree with a lot of the other stuff plates tickets fines etc.
I personally think the worst is still to come concerning bill 13
Right now ICBC and BCORMA hold all of the cards and they are not willing to show us there hands yet we are told to abide by the unknown and told us to trust them so we do but are scolded when we ask for answers.
Is this the way to run an association no it is not.
If you are working on a law that could prove to be unpopular using a gag order you can control the people it affects so when the people do not have information on said proposed law while it is being sorted out it can be passed with out public input.
By placing a gag order on a situation you know that public opinion will not support your addenda. You can involve a group and refer to that group as "speaking for public interest" while placing a gag order on the situation making it so that you do not have to include the public.
A few problems with BCORMA that I can see:
If BCORMA is involved with Bill 13 and some of the people are drawing a wadge from the bills outcome then I see a conflict of interest as in why would you bite the hand the feeds you.
A clear lack of communication concerning anything to do with Bill 13 Given that BCORMA has been working on this since early 2000 something (more then 3 years) there has been ample opportunity to communicate and bring issues to those bill 13 would affect yet a clear decision was made not to.
Ken and peter are not the people to have running this due to how they interact with the public (this is drived from how they have been communicating on line and particularly Ken due to how he has been replying to people on line peter from his complete comunicative absence on all of this)
Do I agree with what BCORMA and Bill 13 are doing yes and no. I agree that registration needs to be done to fight theft I do not agree with a lot of the other stuff plates tickets fines etc.
I personally think the worst is still to come concerning bill 13
Right now ICBC and BCORMA hold all of the cards and they are not willing to show us there hands yet we are told to abide by the unknown and told us to trust them so we do but are scolded when we ask for answers.
Is this the way to run an association no it is not.
Just to be clear, the gag order is the government, not BCORMA. This seems to be normal practice on joint advisory groups from what I can dig up. The advisory group only advises, the government brought in Bill 13 and BCORMA is fighting to change much of what is in the bill.
North
Active member
Just got back from my MLA's office. I think it went well, but who knows. I stressed the need to have my BCORMA rep back on the committee so we could have fair representation and openness to what is going on. I also said that we need people with practical knowledge of the sports involved so the laws are fair and make sense. I used the metal plate on Kid's Bike vs a decal as an example.
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I think the biggest issue of the new Off-Road Vehicle Act will be the 12% tax which will be required for all private sales.
Since the mandatory registration goes through ICBC they will collect everytime time an off-road vehicle is sold subject to a few exceptions. I believe the safety issues, theft issues etc. are minor compared to the tax revenue. Enforcement of safety issues will be difficult and costly. Collecting sales tax will be extremely lucrative and be a continuous source of general revenue not a one time fee. Having said this, I just spent many hundreds of dollars registering off-road motorcycles and was not bothered. We have a fairly well run province, lots of government services which we take for granted and unimaginable amounts of land to ride on especially in the Fraser Valley. Paying for this is okay.
Government should just be upfront and say we are going to tax you more but that just gets people angry and government doesn't like angry people.
I support BCORMA and pay for my trail pass each year. Does anyone know if BCORMA exists under the Society Act of B.C. and if so are financial statements available to members? I believe legally financial statements should be available to members upon request. It would be interesting to see where the money goes. If executive director is very talented and runs BCORMA well he is probably worth a lot of money. Without a financial statement, it's hard to determine the value of Peter. I don't think having him reinstated will have a significant effect on the end result of the ORV act and subsequent regulations. I think the government already has achieved most of the end result.
Since the mandatory registration goes through ICBC they will collect everytime time an off-road vehicle is sold subject to a few exceptions. I believe the safety issues, theft issues etc. are minor compared to the tax revenue. Enforcement of safety issues will be difficult and costly. Collecting sales tax will be extremely lucrative and be a continuous source of general revenue not a one time fee. Having said this, I just spent many hundreds of dollars registering off-road motorcycles and was not bothered. We have a fairly well run province, lots of government services which we take for granted and unimaginable amounts of land to ride on especially in the Fraser Valley. Paying for this is okay.
Government should just be upfront and say we are going to tax you more but that just gets people angry and government doesn't like angry people.
I support BCORMA and pay for my trail pass each year. Does anyone know if BCORMA exists under the Society Act of B.C. and if so are financial statements available to members? I believe legally financial statements should be available to members upon request. It would be interesting to see where the money goes. If executive director is very talented and runs BCORMA well he is probably worth a lot of money. Without a financial statement, it's hard to determine the value of Peter. I don't think having him reinstated will have a significant effect on the end result of the ORV act and subsequent regulations. I think the government already has achieved most of the end result.
I have never been much for political types, but thru these last couple of week I have found the the MLAs and government types have been very approachable. So far it seems that most who had contacted their MLAs over this issue got a few minutes to voice their concerns. Regardless of the outcome here, I got to have my say and it was received respectfully and the response was polite.
Bora20
Administrator
offworlder
Moderator
Thanks for the update Tom.
I echo Dorky's sentiment - posting stuff exclusively on sites such as Friendface (er Facebook...) - and assuming your audience/stakeholders then have access is idiotic.
Its never been more important to stake your claim (read: own/build your site/domain), and then drive traffic there to build equity, value, presence. When you hand it over to others (FB, etc...) they then own your content, and dont be sorry if when they flip a switch, it all goes away.
I echo Dorky's sentiment - posting stuff exclusively on sites such as Friendface (er Facebook...) - and assuming your audience/stakeholders then have access is idiotic.
Its never been more important to stake your claim (read: own/build your site/domain), and then drive traffic there to build equity, value, presence. When you hand it over to others (FB, etc...) they then own your content, and dont be sorry if when they flip a switch, it all goes away.