Does anyone use the MT43 tires?

J

jbv

New member
i've read a lot of great things about these trails like/trials type tires. (i know, no real trials rider on a trials bike would use them). i've read a few not so great things. what i haven't met or talked to is anyone on Vancouver Island or BC who has any experience with them. they seem to be completely unknown to anyone i've talked to, which includes all mechanics and store people in the Comox Valley and Spunky's.

BTW, i run a big monsterbike KLX250s
 
Farp

Farp

Active member
Lot's of people on this side of the strait use them. I wore out a couple of sets on my Beta 400RR. They're a stiff walled tire so you can, and should, run them at lower pressures. I ran them at 12 psi on my Beta. They hook up well on gnarly terrain. They are better than knobbies on rocks but not as good as nobbies on mud, or gravel FSRs. I gave them a good test on a gravel FSR with my Beta. I could get the speed up to about 118 kph with the MT43s before the back wheel started fishtailing a bit. The fishtailing starts to occur when the wind resistance holding the bike back equals the rear wheel traction propelling it forward. If you apply more power at this point the bike will not go any faster and the fishtailing will increase. I ran the same section of road with Maxxis Maxxcross IT tires and I was able to get it up to 124 kph before fishtailing started so the indication is that you get about 5 % more traction on gravel with the nobbies than you do with the MT43s. Most people run a knobby on the front and an MT43 on the rear. There is a lot of on-line hype about this tire but I found that most of it was exagerated. They're not a bad tire but on-line comments like "they're so good it's almost like cheating" had me responding "Really? C'mon man!"

On asphalt they outperform knobbies by a wide margin and aren't too bad (not great) in the wear dep't either.

Bottom line for a KLX250 is you wouldn't notice much difference between them and a knobby off pavement but the MT43s would be significantly better on the asphalt. I used them on the front and the rear with my TR650 Terra and they worked well. If you ride very much pavement I'd recommend them over knobbies.

John
 
D

DirtClunker

Active member
I am on the island. I use IRC competition trials tires when woods riding and racing on my 350 excf. When I do dual sport events or mini adventure rides that require a license plate and DOT tire, I swap over and use an MT43 on the rear. Competition trials tires are useless on the road anyways.

When I use MT43 I use 10psi everywhere with just a HD tube (not a UHD tube). No problems in anything I can throw at it.

I am confused about John's comment above as there is a HUGE difference in these tires when used off road. That is where they excel. Roots, rocks, loam, dirt, wet - they hook up really well for a DOT trials tire. Where knobbies will spin and chew up stuff, these tires grab and move you forward. However, you *must* ride differently. You cant just get yourself into trouble and gas it, you must use momentum and judicious use of the throttle. Heavy throttle wont work.

They do have limitations though. Useless in clay mud. Useless. Trust me on this. Useless. Also the sidewall is stiffer than a competition trials tire, but still not stiff. If you flat you cannot ride it like a D606. There are no side knobs, so if you lean hard on loose surfaces and giv'er, you'll get a surprise.

Last year I tried going back to D606 for DS/Adventure stuff on my 690 and 350. I hated those knobbies. I would rather hook up than spin.

I suggest giving it a go and see if you like it. See if it works for your riding style. All this internet arm chair advice is worth nothing compare to your actual experience.
 
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C

Curse

Member
Also when you go out to compare the MT43 and whichever knobby go to Blue Mountain aka Mcnutt. I have only had the tire a short time and am pleased with results
 
Farp

Farp

Active member
I am confused about John's comment above as there is a HUGE difference in these tires when used off road. That is where they excel. Roots, rocks, loam, dirt, wet - they hook up really well for a DOT trials tire. Where knobbies will spin and chew up stuff, these tires grab and move you forward. However, you *must* ride differently. You cant just get yourself into trouble and gas it, you must use momentum and judicious use of the throttle. Heavy throttle wont work.
Click to expand...

There could be a couple of reasons why I didn't notice a great deal of difference between knobbies and the MT43s off road and you do. First, because I was concerned about pinch flats and rim damage, I never used less than 12 PSI pressure in the MT43's. You use 10 PSI, and although 2 PSI doesn't seem like that much it's about 20% less tire pressure and is significant. 2nd, I learned many years ago not to spin my wheel when riding off-road. I always short shift and am very careful about not applying too much throttle in gnarly terrain. I learned throttle control while riding with knobbies and would have used exactly the same techniques with the MT43s. It's altogether possible that I could have driven the MT43s harder than I did but as they say, old habits die hard, so I would have ridden the MT43s the same as knobbies - which I almost never spin when traction is an issue. For this reason I would not have noticed that the MT43s were capable of better traction than knobbies because I would not have pushed them to their limit.

One thing is certain though, the MT43s are significantly better on rocks, and vastly better on asphalt.

John
 
brooking10

brooking10

New member
I rode a friends KTM450 off road with an MT43 on the back recently. I was running a standard nobbly on the back of my bike, and, after swapping, was very impressed by the rear grip on his bike - the difference was clear. I rode on FSR's and tight duffy, rooty single track. The grip was amazing, so, like Dirtclunker, am amazed at FARPs experiences with them. Frankly stopping using a rear brake was like the hand of God on your chest. As I am enjoying mixed dirt riding, with a more technical bent, I will be getting an MT43 as my next rear (FE390).
 
S

Shuswap

Member
Not a MT43, but I did have a Mich X11 trials tire on the rear of my DRZ for 3-4 rides. Never again! The rear fishtailed badly, on/off pavement, even at 20 psi and in the tight stuff. Frankly I didn't enjoy a tire that moved laterally so much that in my helmet-mounted GoPro footage you can see me counter-steering in corners.
The 'ol DRZ hasn't a mean bone in its body, not as far as handling goes....but for the first time I didn't like the bike. Back onto a Kenda 760 and my confidence in the bike returned.
BTW, I did not find noticeably better traction with the X11 on uphill rock gardens although I must admit most were taken at some speed. Perhaps rocky, rooty would be different....but then the DRZ isn't really the bike for really tight/trials riding anyway.

Like Farp, I up-shift early on hills, seek grip from lower rpm and very little wheelspin is my mantra (whatever that is?) unless drifting corners, where a loose rear is part of the steering routine.

Perhaps the MT43 would work better for me on Blue Mtn or Vedder, just don't know at this point and I may not give them another try
 
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D

DirtClunker

Active member
Shuswap,

You definitely have the wrong tire. The Michelin X11 trials tire is a *competition* trials tire and should *never* be used on pavement. Also, it needs to run under 10PSI off road for any effectiveness. I use an IRC trials competition tire for offroad on my EXC and run with with Tubliss at 5PSI. Like you say, if you are not using the DRZ for tight/trials riding, then dont bother.

Do you still have the tire? Any tread on it?
 
Farp

Farp

Active member
Subjective opinion can be unreliable. It's been shown time and again that preconceptions can have a significant influence on perceptions. So, if someone expects/believes something to be better than the alternatives then their perception on trying it out will be that it is, indeed, better. There has been so much internet hype about the MT43 that anyone who reads it would expect the MT43 to be a superior tire. Generally speaking, you perceive what you expect to perceive. That is why scientific testing does not allow subjective opinion to be used as data. The only thing I know for certain about the MT43/knobby question is that on the same section of a level gravel FSR and riding the same bike in the same direction I was able to ride 6 kph faster on Maxxcross IT knobbies than I was on the MT43s with both tires inflated to 12 psi.

This is a true test of available traction. As you increase your speed on a gravel road the wind resistance will also increase until it equals the traction at the rear wheel driving you forward. If you try to continue accelerating you will not go any faster and the rear wheel will start to fishtail. When using the MT43s the fishtailing started at 118 kph, and with the knobby Maxxcross IT tire it started at 124 kph. This is a measured observation, not subjective opinion, and it shows that on a gravel road the Maxxcross IT tire has about 5% more traction than the MT43. All other comments, including mine, about the performance of the MT43 under different conditions are subjective opinion and should be regarded as such.

John
 
S

Shuswap

Member
Ha! Fun discussion!
Clunker, I did air down to about 12psi and I only ran a few km on pavement, just to get to the dirt. It did seem awful exposed to damage at that pressure and I had just shredded my quite worn K760, so a bit gun shy. The X11 tire isn't mine, handed to me by my brother, (who yanked it off his EXC300 after 4-5 rides) when I destroyed my K760 79km into the bush and hadn't have a spare. You are likely a far better rider than I am, so I would never question your choice of tires.

Farp, funny you should mention top speed, mine also suffered (these are indicated speeds) about 5kph less on asphalt, to about 128kph, not so sure on dirt, but it was slower, maybe only 124? I find dirt costs me a minimum of 5kph over asphalt, but the X11 was not able to get to the same top speed that I usually see off-road, while I'm pretending to be JN Roberts.
Personally I attribute it to the tire absorbing more hp due to flex more than my much stiffer K760 at 14psi+/-. I find the top end is about 5-6 kph less on dirt than asphalt, running the K760, which I attribute to less grip on dirt, even good dirt. Before dropping 1 tooth off the counter-shaft I lost 10kph on dirt vs asphalt....roughly 130 vs 140.

It's all good, but I won't use a trials tire for the type of riding I do again. If I had a lighter bike and saw slower speeds I'd give it further thought, but until then, no thanks.
 
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D

DirtClunker

Active member
I have had my trials bike up to 120kmh with no noticeable issue with the rear trials tire. I guess I need to push it a bit more.


(I'll get a video and post it on youtube)
 
K

Knight-Rider

New member
I run a Pirelli mt43 on my 690 and Michelin x11 on my other bikes. The Michelin is a way better tire, and they are twice the price for a reason. I am not so sure about riding them on the road though. That is the reason I had to settle for the mt43. I've had it up to 130 km/h on the highway at 12psi with no problems. I was not there for very long mind you. I am normally happy cruising at about 90km/h

Riding a trials tire requires a different style than a knobby. Upshifting on a hill to lower your rpms to get traction would result in either a clutch workout or a stalled bike.

I find a trials tire isn't for everyone, but it makes me look like a better rider than I actually am. I will stick with it, although the newest thing I am hearing about for amazing traction is a maxxis desert it tire, on a tubeliss setup running 0 psi. Tempting as that sounds, I am a trials tire guy.

I ran the stock knobby off my 690. That made me remember why I stopped running them on my enduro bike.


different strokes for different folks.
 
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Farp

Farp

Active member
Farp, funny you should mention top speed, mine also suffered (these are indicated speeds) about 5kph less on asphalt, to about 128kph, not so sure on dirt, but it was slower, maybe only 124? I find dirt costs me a minimum of 5kph over asphalt, but the X11 was not able to get to the same top speed that I usually see off-road, while I'm pretending to be JN Roberts.
Personally I attribute it to the tire absorbing more hp due to flex more than my much stiffer K760 at 14psi+/-. I find the top end is about 5-6 kph less on dirt than asphalt, running the K760, which I attribute to less grip on dirt, even good dirt. Before dropping 1 tooth off the counter-shaft I lost 10kph on dirt vs asphalt....roughly 130 vs 140.
Click to expand...

I mentioned the top speed because it give a true indication of the traction offered by these tires. The only difference in the two tests was the type of tire used - everything else was identical. The important thing to understand is that when the wind resistance impeding your progress equals the force driving you forward you cannot go any faster because the rear wheel will start to spin causing the bike to fishtail, and the maximum force driving you forward is determined by the traction available to the rear wheel - assuming you have horsepower to spare. You don't experience this on asphalt because the coefficient of friction between the tire and the road is so high that you run out of power before you get to the limit of traction. But there is much less traction available on a gravel road so you start to experience this at much lower speeds. One other factor that can increase the top speed of a bike on a gravel road is its weight (think about putting weights in your trunk to increase traction in the snow). There isn't much difference in the wind resistance between a heavy adventure type bike and a lighter enduro model but the Adventure bike will weigh a hundred pounds or more than the enduro. The bikes traction is dependent on the force between the tire and the road so a heavy bike will have more traction than a light one and a heavy adventure type bike will have a greater top speed on a gravel road than a light enduro model. If your bike's top speed reaches its maximum speed on a gravel road without fishtailing it's probably due to insufficient horsepower and is not a traction issue.

John
 
C

Curse

Member
Couple points to mention for those comparing X11 vs MT43 everyone will tell you the Pirelli tire is not for use in trails. Yes it has a trials looking profile to it however they stiffened the side walls of the tire and change the rubber compound. It's DOT rated tire

Also Farp you are comparing tire traction at high speeds on gravel roads. That would be like having offroad tires for my 4x4 and you are comparing how things handle on the racetrack. compare them based on say a hillclimb with roots and rocks what they were designed for. I can tell you last time I was out at same 12 PSI I had no issue on gravel fsr road to take tire up to 140+ and I am only 155lbs with ktm 530. Yeah you start getting fish tailing at certain speeds I find once you push thru it a little it balances out fine. just like when you are on the road and don't balance out the tires. Depending on bike I had little issues with tire balance on my old Husky 610 but with new 530 on my prev tires mt21 once you hit 90km and the shake was nuts on road.
But everyone has their own likes and dislikes you have to find what fits your riding so test out both and for the price of a MT43 at around 70$ online you can't go wrong trying it out.
 
S

Shuswap

Member
Just to be clear, the X11 I tried also fishtailed vigorously on asphalt, even at 20psi.
I'm not saying it's a dangerous tire, but I had a whole lot less confidence in the bike with the arse swinging rhythmically back and forth at top speed. Felt like a dance step! I did try and adjust but it wasn't much fun waiting for the rear end to take a line on a corner at 110kph.

It sounded to me like John was saying the trials tire offered less traction at top speed than a knobby did, don't think anyone said it offers less at slower speeds. I didn't find it offered any better traction at slower speeds, on gnarly hill climbs. If I had a different bike and was riding tighter/trials stuff I might give it another try, but why bother if the knobby is doing as well as it is and I've never had an issue with it's handling.

Just an aside comment: I made a very foolish mistake this summer, left my fuel off while riding through an empty parking lot..... left the bike in 2nd gear, reached over with my right hand to hold the clutch in while my left hand reached down to turn the fuel on and completely lost control of the bike(20kph), which dipped dramatically to the left, catching the left *foot peg* on the asphalt and lifting the rear tire off the ground....the turn was THAT tight. No one was more surprised than me that the tires didn't lose grip and the bike righted itself before I could get my arms sorted.
I turned through about 140 degrees in about 1-2 seconds, it was a wild dip, to say the least yet the knobs hung in there. I've had a re-think on fuel management and a new appreciation for the grip that knobbies actually offer.
 
D

DirtClunker

Active member
Shuswap said:
Just to be clear, the X11 I tried also fishtailed vigorously on asphalt, even at 20psi.
I'm not saying it's a dangerous tire, but I had a whole lot less confidence in the bike with the arse swinging rhythmically back and forth at top speed. Felt like a dance step! I did try and adjust but it wasn't much fun waiting for the rear end to take a line on a corner at 110kph.
Click to expand...


There is no argument. The X11 is NOT designed for pavement and *never* designed for 110kmh. It is meant for trials bikes competing in trials sections. It is totally unrealistic to judge this tire based on mis-use. Its like mounting an SM tire and using it on a sand dune, then saying the SM tire is useless for road riding. It is drawing the wrong conclusion from mis-use. Doesn't make any sense. BTW the X11 is one of the best competition trials tire available - for its intended purpose. (although the most expensive tire).


Curse said:
Couple points to mention for those comparing X11 vs MT43 everyone will tell you the Pirelli tire is not for use in trails.
Click to expand...

Curse - who is saying the MT43 is not for use in trails?!?!!? For sure it is - 100%. Yes they stiffened the side walls, and yes it has a harder compound to make it DOT. But yet, it is very much intended for trails. Perhaps you mean the MT43 is not intended for trials competition? (eye eh versus eh eye)? If so, yes this is true - it is not a trials competition tire. Maybe for LDT, but not observed sections.
 
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G

gonebiking

Member
jbv said:
i've read a lot of great things about these trails like/trials type tires. (i know, no real trials rider on a trials bike would use them). i've read a few not so great things. what i haven't met or talked to is anyone on Vancouver Island or BC who has any experience with them. they seem to be completely unknown to anyone i've talked to, which includes all mechanics and store people in the Comox Valley and Spunky's.

BTW, i run a big monsterbike KLX250s
Click to expand...

MT43 , try it you'll like it, no perfect dualsport tire, its not magic. Nutshell, only complaint off road loose gravel and rear braking. I've had mt21,606 and trackmaster 760.
icbc scares me to stay DOT.

Needs to be aired up on road (around 20psi), adds to longevity.

Going to try a AC10 next.
 
R

redpillar

Member
I have used the MT 43 extensively, ridden from here to montana down the continental divide trail to colorado and back through Idaho again with no issues, no chunking, excellent traction on pavement, gravel, single track. That trip was about 5000 km. Ridden the 1500 mile Tour of Idaho which is renowned for tearing tires to shreds with no issues, and still had 50% tread left. I noticed no squirminess on gravel at speed and will drift corners predictably. It worked very well in sand dunes to very rasty rooty single track as well. Claws over wet rock. My partner ran the same tire with the same results. It is a tractor tire as far as I am concerned. It is a DOT tire and should not be compared to a competition trials tire. In my opinion it does better in a wider range of terrain than a lot of knobbies for a longer duration. It is the shits on grass and mud.
 
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