KTM 690 Enduro R EFI Stalling Nightmare

slajax

New member
I'm posting this partly because when we finally figure it out I want the internet to know we did it but also because I'm hoping someone can help me out with a small favour that will help me trouble shoot this.

In the spring I started having issues with my 2012 KTM 690 Enduro R. It's hard to say when it first started exactly, as just like most 690 owners who also complain on the internet, I've seemed to have some degree of finicky stalling issues from the day I slapped on an aftermarket pipe. Certainly around early spring, maybe just after the newbie ride, this issue became extremely pronounced and bad enough that I started not trusting the bike at all.

The issue I've been experiencing is that the bike will suddenly spike or drop in RPMs. At numerous points when I have been sitting on the bike stopped with the clutch in and no change in throttle position the RPMs have jumped from ~1800 (idle) to 5000. This can also happen on the highway or when down shifting into a stop sign except the RPMs will drop to 0 and the bike will stall. Other times when accelerating the bike will start chugging dramatically as if it is losing power or running out of gas. Stalling is certainly the most common of these symptoms.

Whenever any of these situations happen I have generally noticed that (based on the sound of the muffler) the bike will seriously lean out, get very choppy, backfire, sometimes trigger an FI error code and then, as one inmate described it; "go into limp home mode". At this point if I continue to ride it, it will just backfire really bad and continue stalling. One time to demonstrate the issue to a mechanic, I put it in neutral and rev'd it while in this state. It backfired and the throttle body blew off.

Generally the only solution I have found is to turn the ignition off, turn it back on and then proceed carefully until it happens again. In some cases I can manage to keep it running for a while but it will always reoccur within a varying degree of distance, but lets say 50 km tops. I started getting used to doing this reboot at speed anytime it happens. Sad I know.

In the beginning I wasn't noticing FI error codes but it seemed logical that the issue was electrical and my mechanic and I speculated that perhaps the THAD & APAD (TPS) were having issues so he started by cleaning / adjusting both TPS. This didn't work and once he saw the situation first hand he went about ordering new ones and then replaced them both for me. This didn't solve the issue either.

After replacing them however, I started noticing more consistent error codes, specifically the one for voltage being too high/low for both the THAD & APAD (TPS). Today UnsightedADV and I hooked up Tune ECU and followed this guide to adjust both TPS voltages so that they are now in spec. It looks like the shop may have set them to the wrong model year as the voltage seemed to be too high for 690 R 09-13, but in spec for 690 08-10, probably just an honest mistake.

Now that these voltages are in spec, the error codes have changed to:

P0122 TPS Low voltage. Short to ground or open circuit.
P0227 GTPS Low voltage. Short to ground or open circuit.

The bike now also stalls consistently every 100 yards or less and we are thinking it's possibly an issue with the voltage regulator based on this.

I'm planning to order a replacement but it would be great to test the theory before I blow more money on parts.

So with that said, is there anyone out there in Vancouver, North Van, West Van, East Van, Burnaby, Surrey etc who would be willing to lend me their regulator before the weekend so I can swap mine out and see if it makes a difference? It would save me a ton of time and two long drives out to the wack and back to borrow Ken's.

If this doesn't work then I guess I need to start breaking down the wiring and testing voltage all the way through. I've checked for pinched wires and cleaned obvious grounding, but haven't actually tested voltage through out the system as I'm very much learning this stuff as I go and electrical is complicated.

Please feel free to chime in with ideas, suggestions or critiques!

Thanks in advance! Braaap... stall.
 
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joker650

Active member
When Wingman got his 2013 it ran great until he installed an aftermarket muffler.
It would start and idle fine but then stall....every time.
He got it re mapped at RTR and has been flawless ever since.
 

KTM-Bryon

Member
Ya, what joker said. If you remapped it great. Otherwise put the stock pipe back on, disconnect the batter cables for a few minutes, fire her up and see if your problems are solved.
 

slajax

New member
Hey Guys, Thanks for the input.

It's definitely not as simple as re-mapping / idle reset and this point.

I was just being snarky about the after market pipe issue. I fixed that a while back by just creating back pressure with the baffle.

I've definitely ruled all of those things out.

At this point the FI error codes indicate it's an electrical issue and I've narrowed it down to regulator or perhaps a bad connection / ground somewhere.
 

slajax

New member
Today I replaced the regulator with a brand new OEM one and the problem is still persisting.

I'm currently attempting to hook it back up to Tune ECU to confirm TPS are still in spec and check if error codes are still consistent.

I'm not sure where to go from here but I guess the next steps are to check the wiring / grounds / voltages extremely thoroughly and maybe the stator?
 

Shuswap

Member
You wouldn't be wasting your time cleaning and re-installing ALL grounds, source of many very odd electrical issues.
 

slajax

New member
I think you are right Shuswap.

Ok, so TPS are all still in spec and the error codes are the same, so here's the new plan...

Tomorrow I'm going to check the stator as per here and here.

I'm also going to clean all of the grounds; starter, battery, regulator and look for loose / pinched connections.

I'm getting a third error code in Tune ECU for crank shaft sensor, so I'm also going to start looking into how that works.
 
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vortexman

New member
Voltage drop

Voltage drop

You wouldn't be wasting your time cleaning and re-installing ALL grounds, source of many very odd electrical issues.

If you are chasing electrical ghosts it is far better to follow a factory trouble shooting regime for these faults. When grounds on large complex machines are buried or suspect we conduct a voltage drop test. Saves hours of chasing your tail.


http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/com...articlecategories/electrical/diagnosevoltdrop


For trouble shooting codes follow these protocols

Start with known good battery
Check power and ground connections at bat ground and ecu max voltage drop .1v
Check signal from ecu to sensors ref voltage in (see KTM schematic)
Check with DSO oscilliscope signal coming back to ecu from sensors, this rules out any intermittent sensor fault

http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/download/asset/2432735_6003_eng_b_w.pdf

This is very routine from lawn mower engines to PT6 Aircraft turbines, oh, and KTM's as well
 
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slajax

New member
Thanks for everyone's advice. I believe I finally have a solution - fingers crossed but so far it looks good.

The electrical in behind my Lynx R fairing wasn't strapped in sufficiently and over time it loosened up. One of the wires in the harness started rubbing on the metal mounting bracket that secures the fairing to the lower triple clamp. It wore down enough that when I would come to a stop, momentum would cause it to make contact and ground out, which triggered the EFI fault and put the bike into "limp" mode. Resetting the bike's power, typically would put things back to normal, but only until the next time the wire grounded out again and this typically only happened when riding.

I learned a lot from this. Mainly, check all of your electrical thoroughly because it's easy to miss something like this and even one damaged wire can cause these symptoms. I also realize now that when I had the TPS replaced and it wasn't calibrated properly, those error codes were masking the real error codes which was that the electrical grounding out.

Looking back (as per advice in this thread), I definitely should have been troubleshooting the electrical before replacing parts as that caused instability in my trouble shooting. But hey, on the bright side, I now have a spare TPS and regulator for when I need them.
 
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Roadfury

New member
Thanks for posting your findings! I'm going to make sure all my wiring is well protected now so I won't run into the problem down the road. It doesn't sound like this would be much of an issue on a stock fairing though?
 

slajax

New member
Roadfury: You are welcome but I'm not done yet! ;) You are right, this particular spot would be less likely with stock fairing as you wouldn't have the metal bracket I have. That said, there are lots of other places wiring can chafe and wear through!
 

slajax

New member
Bike Update: I took her out for a rip north yesterday. She rode fine all day through harrison west. We stopped for supplies in pemberton then headed out the hurley and right away she started running rough and stalled at low RPMs. I could tell right away that it was a very different feeling problem then I was tackling before with the electrical.

Luckily my trust level is low so I pulled the eject button a little ways up the hurley and we headed back to pemberton just before you start climbing into the pass. On the way back to town she was chugging pretty hard anywhere under 5000pm and felt like she was running out of gas. Above, she still chugged a little but it was relatively smooth. By the time I got back to the edge of town she was dying every 50 feet as if she was running out of gas and then would lose power when I tried to accelerate. I got her to town and camped out under the big gazeebo while my buddy took the long ride back to van to get his truck. 9 hours later he arrived and we made it back to the city around 5am.

I really don't think this issue is related to the electrical issues because the symptoms are much more acute. At first I thought bad gas or I put in diesel or something by accident, but my buddy filled up at the same spot and had no issues. To be sure, I took about a litre of gas out of the bottom of the tank and it was plain ol regular gas. My thought is it's the pump, injector or filter this time around. After running hot for 6 hours, it cooled down in pemby and something clogged up.

I'll try to post a little video from my phone shortly to see if you good folks have any more advice or ideas. I'm not giving up!
 
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KTM-Bryon

Member
your pump should be okay if it runs at all but the filter could be plugged especially if you ran it almost out of gas. The filter is in line but it is inside the tank plus there is a screen over the pump inlet. I change the filter about once a year and it is very dirty.

I have also had a bad connector in the FI system cause it to barely run. I couldn't find any problems but Holeshot got going no problem. I think it was an hour or so of service they charged me.
 

bkoz

Member
Or maybe you got really lucky and one of the quick disconnects on the fuel line wasn't fully seated and ended up popping off after riding for awhile. More common than you would think.
 

redpillar

Member
I just happened across your post and remember reading a trip report from a fellow on ADVrider that took his 690 across Africa and had nothin but issues like yours, he finally figured it out after literally replacing the entire wiring harnesses and fuel pumps etc. It was the voltage regulator,
here is a link to his report. you may need to skim through it but he does talk about it somewhere in the last ten pages or so. Hope this helps.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/25-000-miles-with-luke-and-nick.653492/page-60
 

slajax

New member
@KTM-Bryon - It definitely could still be FI or electrical but I would expect that would throw an error code. I'm fairly familiar with those symptoms since I resolved an issue with grounding that was happening previously and now the issue appears (at least to me) to be related to fueling. Check the video below. What that doesn't show is how it was acting as it went from running fine to dying over a period of about 30 minutes. Before it stopped working completely and as I was driving it back to town, it was chugging and acting like it was running out of gas when it wasn't - I had just filled up with 91. At first it seemed like bad gas, then it seemed like the pump was failing to me, but hey, after dealing with the other electrical issues, I wouldn't be surprised if you were right!

@bkoz - Here's hoping it's simple but I looked pretty good and haven't seen anything like that. I'm gonna go over it with a fine tooth comb before the weekend.

@redpillar - I already replaced the TPS and the voltage regulator for the earlier grounding issue and believe that thread was actually one of the reasons why :) I'm trying to avoid replacing the entire wiring harness unless I have to. Hopefully it's the pump, filter or fuel injector. The pump is worth upgrading anyway and the filter likely needs replacing after 14,000 km.

Here's a quick video of what's happening when I start her up, thanks for everyone's advice!!!!

 
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