Motorised Recreation in BC Hits a Big Speed Bump

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
We are not sure who opened this big can of worms, whether it be a over zealous bureaucrat or these marching orders come from much higher.

We have been informed by the Chilliwack Recreation Tech that DSBC must get Land Use Permission to use the Tamihi Area Crown Land.



I highly recommend that you all read and understand the two documents that I have provided links below.


These Land Use Policies have been around since 2014 and for some reason the Chilliwack Branch of RSTBC has decided it is their obligation to make sure we know about this.

For whatever reason these policies have not been enforced with the not for profit events, however the Chilliwack Forest District Rec officer has seen to it that we are now aware of the policies and that we are actively ignoring them. It's not just motorised recreation having this problem.


To keep it simple, all crown land is owned by the queen and to use her land we must have permission. This duty has been given to the Provincial government. The provincial government has developed these two policies to keep us within the law.


This first link is to the Land Use Permission Policy
The DSBC Nubee ride is going to follow this Policy and limit this event to 100 participants. If we follow this policies instructions we are good to go. But of course the day of the big event and the amount of money raised will be diminished substantially.


http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/fa...use/land-water-use/crown-land/permissions.pdf


If the Nubee Ride where to continue to operate as it has in the past, because of its number of participants exceeds 100, now falls under this Adventure Tourism Policy
This is a lot of work and more than a few hurdles to cross from what I have read so far. This is not a bad policy and something we will have to accept in the near future. Not sure how long to get approval and my understanding is approval may be good for several years. I am presently working with BCORMA to get a clear picture of how this all applies to our sport. but I think we are going to have to accept that this will be the future for large events.


http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/fa...nd-water-use/crown-land/adventure_tourism.pdf


This is a real game changer for off road motorised, particularly dirt bikes as we have many events throughout the province over 100 participants. All these events are hosted by not for profit clubs that donate countless dollars in time and usually plow any money they make from their events, right back into the trail systems.

Tom:(
 

Dan

Member
I'm having trouble comprehending all that legal talk, doesn't it say "for a fee" in the adventure tourism description, of which there is no fee for the newbie ride, only a requirement of a trailpass or membership or whatever, which is not direct compensation.
 

winterax

New member
So if I'm rider 101, I can make a donation and not "register". No "fees" paid the way I interpret it. I have insurance on my bike, anybody asks, I'm just out for a Sunday ride.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
If the nub ride meets the sub 100 participants and another few things, we can carry on

but if we go over 100 participants we have to pay a fee 250 bucks and submit a plethora of paperwork everything from environmental to insurance, this may not be a bad thing but we just don't have the time for this year and will have to decide very soon if we want to attempt for next year. It is an awful lot to expect from volunteers

If you want to take a look at the process, here is the link to get you started
http://www.frontcounterbc.gov.bc.ca/guides/crown-land/crown-land-tenure/overview/

But just for fun see if you can find your way to this site without any outside help?

Tom
 

MXOldtimer

New member
Probably would work from a legal point of view but would/could cause big problems for Tom and his crew with the Bcrats. Good idea though Axel, sure am glad we don't have that problem here in AB. Oh wait a minute the Bcrats here just close the area.

Sigh
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
So if I'm rider 101, I can make a donation and not "register". No "fees" paid the way I interpret it. I have insurance on my bike, anybody asks, I'm just out for a Sunday ride.

This could get the organisers of the event into a shitstorm with a couple of levels of government, and those organisers will not have much credibility with some very important bureaucrats involved in off roading, I do not recommend it

I will say this again, this may not be a bad thing. This will make the organisers produce a Master Plan, actually not a bad idea. It also will make organisers aware of protected areas and species in danger, again not a bad thing. But this whole process is hugely time consuming and requires you to think like a government bureaucrat (something in short supply amongst our numbers)
 

farmerger

Member
OK, I'm no lawyer but this is what I read from those links. An organised group ride, like the nubee, would require a Temporary Permit. The application fee for that is $250. Then for the actual event you would need to "rent" one intensive use site, that's $100. Then for motorised participants its $6 per head. So in total, say you get 200 riders out, its $250 application plus $100 for the site plus $6x200, total cost $1550.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
OK, I'm no lawyer but this is what I read from those links. An organised group ride, like the nubee, would require a Temporary Permit. The application fee for that is $250. Then for the actual event you would need to "rent" one intensive use site, that's $100. Then for motorised participants its $6 per head. So in total, say you get 200 riders out, its $250 application plus $100 for the site plus $6x200, total cost $1550.

You
are missing all the mapping you must supply, dealing with endangered species, and possible damage to riparian areas, meeting with First Nations and other specified stakeholders to get letters of approval.

If it were just money that would be easy
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
As most of you know DSBC is going thru this process for the Spring NuBee Ride. We have received nothing but what appears to be roadblocks in the form of "advice" from our local RSTBC. We as in most years started our application process back in January once we confirm our date of the event.

To date there have been many emails back and forth with a lot of ground work done by several DSBC members. You would think after more than 10 years of this it would be a simple process by now?

RSTBC has been concentrating on the Land Use Permission, although this is outside of their jurisdiction. From our vantage point RSTBC is making the process so difficult and now seems to be interfering with the process by advising frontcounterbc of our event. Here is an excerpt from the email DSBC just received. It also should be noted that RSTBC only has jurisdiction on Recreation Sites and Trails with a Section 56. Only the Tamihi Staging area has a section 56 all other areas are crown land


emails from RSTBC
The District Recreation Officer (DRO) advises DualSport BC to be aware of and comfortable with their level of insurance/compensation as it relates to the authorization required for organized events on Crown land outside the Tamahi Staging area.


The information provided above was discussed with Natural Resource Specialist Hideki Eto on March 2, 2017.


Please forward the DRO a copy of your insurance and advise the DRO whether DualSport BC will be utilizing the Land Use Permission Policy or Adventure Tourism Policy for their organized event on Crown land April 30, 2017.

It also seems like RSTBC might even be calling us liars, as the organisers of the ride we reviewed the information that was provided and we made the decision to keep the participation to under 100. We advised RSTBC of this and we get this kind of response
Although you have stated in your Application for a Competitive or Organized Event on a Recreation Site that if the weather is good, DualSport BC expects 60-80 participants and if the weather is poor DualSport BC expects 30-40 participants, Recreation Sites and Trails BC (RSTBC) has records indicating that in the past there have been 150 or more participants at this event.

We can only tell everyone here that this is outrageous the type of cooperation we are getting for a popular fundraising event like the Nuebee ride. It is important that everyone is aware of what is going on here as this will affect what we do throughout the whole province.

BCORMA is working in the background but it is slow and laborious, and may not be in time for the Newbee ride

We might need a letter writing campaign to let our legislators know that the process is broken at least for us small not for profits

Tom
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
But wait there is more

But wait there is more

Mr Neil recently attended a meeting with RSTB regarding something called a Section 56 (in short is gives permission to manage a trail) The presentation was over 120 slides (for those of you who go presentations you will know what this means) Anyhow RSTBC provided the volunteers with some links to some light reading and recommended they all get up to speed. I believe the meeting itself was over 4 hours.

For those of you not familiar with government acts and policies, they are generally not "stand alone" and require you to understand multiple other acts and policies. although there is only 504 pages of documents to review there easily could be 5 times that amount once you factor in the other related acts and policies

We are not sure where this is all leading



File Name Pages Links
RSTBC Presentation 012217 Reference Links.PDF 3 28
permissions.pdf 13 12
adventure_tourism.pdf 58 24
adventure-tourism-commercial-recreation 1 10
bc-hydro-rights-of-way-guidelines-compatible-uses-development-near-power-lines.pdf 16 0
dck_engineering.htm 1 16
http://www.sitesandtrailsbc.ca/default.aspx 1 9
http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/ID/freeside/00_02069_01 1 217
http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/16_2004 1 24
http://www.frontcounterbc.ca/pdf/S57ApplicationInfoGuide.pdf 10 7
http://www.frontcounterbc.ca/pdf/TrailsRecreationForm.pdf 3 2
http://www.sitesandtrailsbc.ca/documents/volunteer-handbook.pdf 22 1
https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfp/publications/00201/appen07/appen07.htm 11 1
http://geobc.gov.bc.ca/ 1 1
https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/tasb/SLRP/plan95.html 1 53
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/sei/ 1 6
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/frpa/uwr/approved_uwr.html 1 167
https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/archaeology/accessing_archaeological_data/ 1 7
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/air-land-water/water/water-quality/community-watersheds 1 2
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/frpa/iwms/wha.html 1 1
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/plants-animals-ecosystems/species-ecosystems-at-risk 1 12
http://www.shuswaptrailalliance.com/userfiles/file/Environmental_Trail_Screening_Tool_May_2015%20SAVE%20ABLE%20FINAL.pdf 45 7
http://www.sitesandtrailsbc.ca/documents/manual/chapter9.pdf 90 10
http://www.sitesandtrailsbc.ca/documents/manual/chapter10.pdf 98 14
http://www.sitesandtrailsbc.ca/documents/mountain-bike-policy.pdf 17 16
https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.avalancheassociation.ca/resource/resmgr/Standards_Docs/Avalanche_Safety_Plan_Templa.pdf 27 5
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/twg/documents/wildlife_guidelines_recreation_may06_v2.pdf 57 27
http://www.sitesandtrailsbc.ca/documents/Trail-Strategy-for-BC_V6_Nov2012.pdf 21 1
Totals 504 680
 

offworlder

Moderator
For no benefit other than to perpetuate the existence of the bureaucrats, bureaucracy rears its ugly head again.
Thanks for keeping the community in the loop Tom.

Lets get to that letter writing campaign folks !
 

Farp

Active member
A substantial number of Newbie riders only ride the C/adventure loops on public FSRs and do not go on the trails at all. If you deduct the C riders from the total you'd probably have less than 100 trail riders. I don't think RSTBC have any say about people riding street legal, plated, bikes on public roads.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
A substantial number of Newbie riders only ride the C/adventure loops on public FSRs and do not go on the trails at all. If you deduct the C riders from the total you'd probably have less than 100 trail riders. I don't think RSTBC have any say about people riding street legal, plated, bikes on public roads.

Wont
work, FSR fall under crown land and if you are more than 15 you need permission to use.

RSTBC has so much as called DSBC liers and informed Frontcounterbc that we might be having over 150. This is outside of her authority but the damage is done
 

KTM-Bryon

Member
I see there is an off-road race on the Island plus another organized dirt bike ride on the same day as the spring nubie. That will thin the ranks this year for sure.
 

Rustic

DSBC President / BCORMA Treasurer
Staff member
Tom et al,

Can we have a littke discussion on this tomorrow with any of the members that have spoken with RSTBC? I can do all the Environmental reporting that woukd be required for either events or managing. I would suggest we are already managers of Tamahi as we worked to establish build it yes? (Before my involvement) but if that is so the government does put alot of emphasis on eatablished users/use/contributions and this Rec Officer (or are they the Rec Tech?) May need a little counselling from superiors in this regards.
How can I help?
 

North

Active member
I live in Rosedale now and I will go to my MLA's Office and ask them what can be done. What a Brave New World we live in!

Why should we pay a cent for using Crown Land? This is just wrong. I guess being Political is the way to go now.
 
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tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Tom et al,

Can we have a littke discussion on this tomorrow with any of the members that have spoken with RSTBC? I can do all the Environmental reporting that woukd be required for either events or managing. I would suggest we are already managers of Tamahi as we worked to establish build it yes? (Before my involvement) but if that is so the government does put alot of emphasis on eatablished users/use/contributions and this Rec Officer (or are they the Rec Tech?) May need a little counselling from superiors in this regards.
How can I help?

lets
make sure we talk, Neil is also involved, see you tomorrow

Tom
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
I live in Rosedale now and I will go to my MLA's Office and ask them what can be done. What a Brave New World we live in!

Why should we pay a cent for using Crown Land? This is just wrong. I guess being Political is the way to go now.

please get up to speed with Neil, you are in Laurie throness riding which is the guy that needs to be brought up to speed by one of his constituants

Tom
 
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