Chinese bikes

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Which Cycle rag is based in Victoria? Inside Mtorcycles or the other one? Anyways, they will be testing and reporting on the Chinese bike in the next issue. Can't wait to read it. They say they won't go easy on it.
 

Taxguy

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If you buy one of the Japanese "playbikes" like a Honda CRF or a Yamaha TTR the resale value is excellent. I had a TTR225 a couple of years ago that I bought for $3,000, rode hard for a year, and then sold for $3,000.
 
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Personally, I wouldn't touch a Chinese bike with a ten foot pole. I overheard a couple of guys talking about their Chinese pocket rockets one day and they said, so what, I only paid $300 for it and if it breaks, I'll just throw it away.

Sorry, not my idea of a motorcycle.
 
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jburnin

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I don"t think this will change your mind, but my buddy just bought a pocket bike off e-bay for $4.99, ya thats right $4.99. My other friend got one for $6.99. The catch is that the shipping is $160 no matter where in canada. The warehouse is in Vancouver but no pick up. I say if you wanted to get your son or daughter a bike for their first bike this would be a very cheap way to get them going. Yes they are not going to last forever but maybe it will make it long enough for you to save up for an xr 80. If you want to check it out go on ebay and type pocket bikes in the search engine. Hell I might get one to play on after having a couple brewskis while camping.:hb:
Thoughts by jacob
 
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Rob K

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Heck, I spill $160 in a month on stupid things that I can't remember. I wouldn't twitch to spend that on parts - never mind a whole bike!

I'll have to check that out.

Thanks
 
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Ross

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I bought a chinese engine kit for a mountain bike. I was a blast... or 2 ...then it died . Changed carb. made new manifold. Another blast...back to the shop. manufactre extra mounting bracket for muffler, shakes sooo bad. Another blast on the trails, what a riot. coil dies I pedal back, go to the bank, get a new drz400 !
 
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ulendo

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gonna throw another log on the fire here, and add abrand name.

Hyosung Motor Company. they're one of the cheap manufacturers trying to break into the market. They're going with licensed independent vendors, rather than 'factory' dealerships, and offer everythign from kids dirt bikes, to sport bikes. Now for the kicker - theyre NOT a knockoff, or a buyout: they do some of the manufacturing, and bike assembly FOR suzuki - specifically the SV line, and ( I think) the DL line ( stroms). All of the currently available Hyosung road bikes, for example,use the suzuki 650 V twin. only difference to the suki's here, is they use last generation carbs, rather than FI - thats the standard for THEIR home market, however,where warranty doesnt exist under law, and gas quality is questionable. ( not a 'downgrade' for this market, if you get my drift) all this is from both the hyosung, and suzuki corporate sites under corporate info / corporate partners- gotta dig a bit, but its all there

that said, I suspect where you buy from might be the big factor. dealer here in kelowna offers a full shop, and is DMV / DOT licensed for the Hyosung on-road bikes, and scooterstoo. If you can find a reputabe shop, and can agree on a sufficiently low price, go for it. ( and haggle, haggle, haggle - these guys are trying to break into the market, and want to sell bikes. talk em down..)
 
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keithb7

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course. What a boring place the world would be if we all were the same, and thought the same. I respect everyone's opinion so now I want to share mine.

Chinese bikes are garbage. Stay away from them, if people would stop buying low grade products such as these the market would dry up and disappear. Perfect. The quality of mechandise for the average consumer over the past 30 years has seriously degraded. I believe a major reason for this is consumers that are price driven. Look at the quality of almost anything at the Real Canadian Superstore, or Walmart. Ever bought a made in china, real cheap hair dryer? Pressure washer? Toaster? Drill? It always breaks in a short period and you just toss it out. You accept the fact that it was cheap, so you toss it. $49 DVD players at Walmart...$30 sleeping bags at the Superstore...The list goes on and on. People keep buying this low quality mechandise, so manufacturers keep making more and more of it. It fills up our landfills and in the end is a bad investment for your money.

I wanted an affordable pressure washer to clean my dirt bike after muddy rides. I bought a McCullah from Walmart. Big mistake. I returned it after a week, thought I had a bad one, exchanged it for a new one. It lasted about a month and it started acting up. I returned it, got my money back and have decided to go without until I can save enough for a Honda gas pressure washer. People, enough is enough. Stop buying low grade stuff from China. China is a communist country where slave labourers work long days and nights for next to nothing for pay.

Just for comparison sake lets look at this example. I recently bought my son a 2006 CRF70. Price was $2000 plus tax. He is enjoying it no doubt, he's 7 and will easily get 3 to 4 years out of this bike. I am pretty confident in the Honda product and am sure that any parts to be bought over the next 3 to 4 years will be minimal. Yesterday I saw a 2005 model for sale at the same dealership. Price was $1799. So the first year, lets assume I loose $200 in resale value. Right now today in the Vancouver buy & sell a 2002 XR70 is listed for $1700. Lets assume it will sell for $1600. The new price on that bike in 2002 was probably about $1850 or so. I have $250 to loose in 4 years! Lets be generous and say I loose $400. That's $100 a year! That's great value as it still has many years or life left in it for many more kids to ride and pass along. It won't end up in the land fill in a few years as they are in high demand, parts are easily availalble and they are very reliable.

Now lets compare the made in China dirt bike at Canadian Tire. The small kids one, not sure if it is 50cc or 100cc either way it's pretty cheap. Not 100% sure but I'd guess they are around $600. Within the first few rides something is bound to break. Parts and pieces are of very low quality. Tubes are thin and easily pop. Steel is of very low quality (recycled rusty container ships?), nuts and bolts won't stay tight, threads strip, I could go on and on. So you have the aggrevation of trying to order parts from the kid at Canadian Tire. He gives you attitude cause he knows it all. You know the type. If you can get parts, it's a regular trip back to get more that keep breaking. 4 years later there is a good chance that it would have sat in the garage broken quite a bit and had limited use.

Kids are kids, when they are learning to ride they are going to fall, stuff breaks. When they get better they start to jump. Poor suspension and cheap steel bends and breaks. 4 years later try selling that Chinese made bike. You'll probably have sent it to the dump by then. You're out $600 you paid, the money you spent in replacement parts, trips to Canadian Tire, the crying kids, not to mention the price they charged you at the dump to leave it there.

To each his own. If you want a bike made in China try one. People are saying that the Japanese bikes of today were junk 30 years ago. That's not true. I just sold a 1976 Honda Z50a for $700 a month ago. It was all original, ran perfect, been though many kids, and will go on for many more years to come. Back in 1976 that bike was probably priced at $500 or less brand new. Can you really see that happening with the made in China bikes of today? Maybe in 30 years from now the Chinese bikes will be a lot better. I am suggesting you wait until that time to buy one.

That's my monthly rant. :)
Keith :tup:
 
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ulendo

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keith - I think you kind of missed my point. The 'Japanese' brands are built and assembled in China / Taiwan / Korea these days too. buying 'brand name'to get 'japanese quality' is a myth. Gotta laugh at your Honda example though- are you aware that Honda sold the tooling outright to a couple of chinese companies? those very same bikes you put down as 'cheap chinese junk' in one sentance are the EXACT same bikes you tout as being 'good old Honda's a couple of lines later. Not copies, not 'from the same plans' - the whole production line, tooling, etc was bought, and moved. 'Honda' parts are direct fit replacements on those bikes. No, they're not cutting edge designs, but as a kids first bike, thats going to get beat to heck, thats not necesarilly a bad thing.

Shopping carefully, I agree with. the Canadian tire bikes are terrible, but they're not one of the bigger import names, either. if you read the lable on them, it says return to manufacturer for parts service, and warranty. I certainly dont advocate buying ANYTHING that the vendor isnt even required to do service and warranty work on! Hyosung have been around in their current corporate form since 1970, and in a prior form since 1956 ( bought out acouple of other companys circa 1970). the Scooter company from Taiwan ( name escapes me right now - they build the little 3 wheeled taxis over there) have been around since 1962. Not 'new' companys, just new markets for them. Do some homework, and stick with the bigger, long standing companies, and its no different than dealing with Hyundai motor Corp, or the japanese electronics companies'offshore' subsudiarys.

I also noticed that in your own words, you've never owned one, so you're 'guessing' that they'll break....hmmm. got any personal, 1st hand evidence, or is it all 'my buddys bike did this', and 'I heard of my third cousins, uncles brother in laws bike doing that' type of evidence .??
 
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keithb7

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Maybe Honda did sell their tooling to the Chinese manufacturers. That does not mean they manufacture the same quality. The raw materials that are used to manufacture parts are available from many sources and levels of quality. I'd love to see some test results on the quality of steel, bearings, seals, drive chain, sprockets, right down to the plastic, paint and fasteners. The exact same tooling may be used to create a 8.8 grade metric bolt either made by Caterpillar in the USA or Yeung Sing in China. Do you believe that they are of the same quality?

No I have never owned one. I never will. I guess I will never have any first hand experience. I have been to the so called dealers or distributors and inspected their products. You get what you pay for. I am not going to quote my cousins friend, I am not guessing that they are going to break. You and I both know that they will.

As far as different manufacturers go, you make a valid point, the Hyosung may be better than most. It's still just the "best of the rest". By that I mean it's still lower
quality product, it's just one of the better suppliers of lower quality. There are probably some good people out there who are trying to service and sell these cheap bikes. In my experience (not my friends cousins sisters) when I went to one of the X-Rage dealers there were no mechanics in sight. Not a single person at the dealer had dirty hands or coveralls on. There were no certified mechanics on site. Just 2 guys assembling new products and selling them. This may be BS but I'm betting they had a $10 socket kit from Walmart as assembly tools. ;)

Reading into this, I see your point. I am blanketing all Chinese made bikes into one catagory. That is not right. The Canadian Tire and the X-Rage products that I have seen are junk. There probably are some better qaulity China made dirt bike products out there aside from the ones I have been exposed to.

One last argument. There is no way that the older Honda's of yesterday are the exact same product that the Chinese bikes are of today. The engine parts may look the same but that's where the similarities end. They may appear to be the same and be interchangeable but the quailty is nowhere near the same. A replacement brand new engine for $250 made in China? I'd love to do a side by side comparison by tearing down the engines. I'd love to tour the factory where they make these bikes.

I work in a service industry where we sell made in the USA products. Every day other companies are are making and selling 2nd rate parts for our products. The made in USA parts are copied and look the same. The acutal life of the part is less than 1/2. The fit and finish is 2nd rate, the prices are also much less. When it comes right down to the meat of it, the cheaper parts are 2nd rate. The way I see it, mimicking is the sincerest form of flattery. Honda must be doing something right if everyone wants to copy their product and buy their tooling.

Keith
 
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ulendo

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try these for an alternate viewpoint on Japanese quality:

http://www.1tail.com/2005_GSXR_frame/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9314629/detail.html

hmmm. while I'm not against chinese, japanese, or 'any' bike by location or brand, I do try to do my homework on manufacturer reliability. pretty easy to find 'someone' irritated enough at ANY brand to have negative comments. FWIW, I alsofind equipment like the X-rage completely un-acceptable - just trying to emphasize that 'one', or 'some' bad brands dont make 'insert-location-of-manufacture-here' ALL bad. SOME of the manufacturers are long standing, honest, and trying to enter new markets: give the decent ones a chance, or you never know what you might miss in a fw years!

heck, I dont even particularly like Harleys, but because I went in with an open mind, I ride a Buell. 3200km in 3 1/2 weeks - cant say I'm unhappy with the decision...but its hardly what I'd been thinking of getting.
 
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jbusser

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I was looking at one of them at a local dealer and I was looking at where the pegs where mounted and I saw the bar that holds them up where welded to the bottom of the casing. These bikes have lots of shortcuts to save money. the one at Canadian tire is a PW80 knock off
 
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ulendo

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" I was looking at one of them at a local dealer "

One of which? thats like saying I was 'looking at an american car, and they're crap'....there are reportedly more than 350 motorcycle manufacturers in China, and Taiwan alone. in the interest of keeping this thread meaningful, lets go to posting BRAND NAMES shall we? that way, someone coming in to look for info on whats good or bad can tell one from the other.

so which brand is using the welded footpegs, and what IS the brand for the one at Canadian tire? ( nothing to prevent Canadian Tire from changing brands if they're not happy with them, either!!)

on edit - for those interested,I finally found the US Hyosung page: I was a couple of years off on the 2 corporate dates, but here you go http://www.ridehyosung.com/about.htm
read the 'about us' carefully - the big japanese manufacturers really dont want you to know who's building the bikes. hyosung name suzuki as their corp partner - check out the Comet 650S - it IS the suzuki SV650
 
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keithb7

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So, is there a dealer near by? I'd like to check one out, see for myself the level of quality and support from the dealership. Is there an explanation why is this product virtually unknown here in North America?
Is Hyosung targeting sales opportunities in Canada?



 

joker650

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keithb7 wrote:
So, is there a dealer near by? I'd like to check one out, see for myself the level of quality and support from the dealership. Is there an explanation why is this product virtually unknown here in North America?
Is Hyosung targeting sales opportunities in Canada?



Hey Keith .....what is the brand they are selling down by ICBC? Those ones look prety crapy also. But they did have a nice lunch buffet:D
 
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ulendo

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Idont know about in Kamloops, but Motortoyz is the vendor here in kelowna ( http://www.motortoyz.ca) hes had the scooters for a while, and just started with the street bikes this year. that means DOT and transport canada certification to be able to sell and register them....quite a bit different to MX bikes that dont have to meet safety specs.

as for 'never heard of them' - pretty sure you've got a suzuki dealer in Kamloops....like I said, they're not 'knockoff's. ( in line with this, check out the USA website I listed above - if you check out the contact / find us details, you'll find that its a SUZUKI dealership!!!)
 
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jbusser

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ulendo wrote:
" I was looking at one of them at a local dealer "

One of which? thats like saying I was 'looking at an american car, and they're crap'....there are reportedly more than 350 motorcycle manufacturers in China, and Taiwan alone. in the interest of keeping this thread meaningful, lets go to posting BRAND NAMES shall we? that way, someone coming in to look for info on whats good or bad can tell one from the other.

so which brand is using the welded footpegs, and what IS the brand for the one at Canadian tire? ( nothing to prevent Canadian Tire from changing brands if they're not happy with them, either!!)

on edit - for those interested,I finally found the US Hyosung page: I was a couple of years off on the 2 corporate dates, but here you go http://www.ridehyosung.com/about.htm
read the 'about us' carefully - the big japanese manufacturers really dont want you to know who's building the bikes. hyosung name suzuki as their corp partner - check out the Comet 650S - it IS the suzuki SV650




Baja is at Canadian tire, and lenex or something like that is the dealer
 
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keithb7

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The M/C's for sale near ICBC in Kamloops are "X-Rage". I had a look at them and the dealer. I personally would stay away. The quality is poor and the dealer? We'll lets just say I saw the owner out dirt-biking a few weeks ago. He was riding a Husky. He was not promoting his X-Rage product.

Ulendo, here on this forum is promoting the Hyosung product line. And that not all Chinese bikes are the same. I am not going to group the X-Rage, Hyosung or Baja bikes of Canadian Tire into one group. I stated earlier that all Chinese bikes were junk and that's not right as I have not seen an actual Hyosung. They do not sell them at the local Kamloops Suzuki dealer. I checked out the Hyosung web site as Ulendo suggested and did see where in 1979 a relationship was established with Suzuki to produce some models for certain Asian markets. I would not go so far as to say that they can be found at any Suzuki dealership. As in meaning they are making M/C's for Suzuki today. It does not state that. The web site does go on to say that Hyosung makes components that can be found on several other brand's of M/C's.
I go to the local Kamloops Suzuki dealership at least once a week and have never seen a Hyosung labeled product.

I agree it is possible that Hyosung may be making products for other manufacturers, they may also be producing some Suzuki products...I have my doubts though that my '06 Suzuki RM-Z450 was built by Hyosung. I will stop sometime when I am in Kelowna and have a look at the Hyosung products there as I have not seen any in Kamloops. I am skeptical based on any other Chinese bikes I have looked over.
 

joker650

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The web site does go on to say that Hyosung makes components that can be found on several other brand's of M/C's.


I think they are the suplier of the stock"Do-hicky" peices on the KLR650, and the base gasket on the DR650 and the front rims on the 950Adventurer and the kick-stands on the 525/450 KTM's:D....oh, and the leaky forks on the DR650, subframe bolts on the KLR650 and the sub-frames on the XR650r:D:D:tup:
 
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