Restricted Use Motorcycles (RUM)

[spc]

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redpillar wrote:

So at this point, besides the Japanese bikes it looks as though the KTM 450/530/690 are the only bikes that have actually gone through certification process, and have the MC designation on the compliance label. Is this accurate?
I talked to Kenco and he stated that the NVIS on the Husaberg says MC on it but the compliance sticker on the bike says comp use only.
What about the Husqvarna TE's. I believe that they are legal to plate in the US, can they not be imported to Canada and made legal?

If it does not say "motorcycle" on the bike's compliance label it should not pass the inspection.

I looked at a husky (I think it was a TE610) that Fifth Gear imported and it said "motorcycle" on the compliance label. However, it is not on Transport Canada's list of vehicles allowed to be imported so I do not know how this will work.

 

[spc]

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cactusreid wrote:

cactusreid wrote:

so what are you folks doing to the homemade out of non approved parts,lights,etc chopper crowd? or is the ubilt bike status the key to getting a bc assigned vin,and inspection,approved to ride in bc?

I'll tighten up my question a little bit just so it doesn't get lost in the clutter. there's 2 questions there,i'll break them apart if need be.

1. I do not know what is down the pike for homebuilts.

2. ubilt is a lot more than just adding a few parts to bike.

I thought you had a KTMdual sport motorcycle. What was wrong with it?

 

[redpillar]

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spc wrote:

redpillar wrote:

So at this point, besides the Japanese bikes it looks as though the KTM 450/530/690 are the only bikes that have actually gone through certification process, and have the MC designation on the compliance label. Is this accurate?
I talked to Kenco and he stated that the NVIS on the Husaberg says MC on it but the compliance sticker on the bike says comp use only.
What about the Husqvarna TE's. I believe that they are legal to plate in the US, can they not be imported to Canada and made legal?

If it does not say "motorcycle" on the bike's compliance label it should not pass the inspection.

I looked at a husky (I think it was a TE610) that Fifth Gear imported and it said "motorcycle" on the compliance label.

Thanks at least that is one other choice, albeit a heavy one

 

[bajaman]

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Hey spc...seeing that you are in the know....and being serious(it's hard),what should someone do who has a "RUM"plated on the street now...any ideas???:gaah:

 

[bajaman]

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fartypants wrote:

bajaman wrote:

fartypants wrote:

tattz wrote:

I am curious I have an 02 ktm 520 and every single part has a dot stamp on it the rims are stamped dot the brake lines stamped dot calipers hubs even the factory front tire was dot ...so now that being said i also bought my bike in the states got the riv sheet did the inspection and walked into the insurance company and insured it so I guess not to argu the point with fancypants but i can say every one of those x on the sheet i can actually say yes my bike has so where does that leave my bike if i get pulled over and a cop sends me to get it inspected ?.....

How can you prove that your bike meets the Fuel System Integrity??

Fuel System Integrity??...WHAT...these "RUM" bikes are meant to jump,ride at 100 miles per hour though the desert...I would have to say there is nothing wrong with Fuel System Integrity or anything else with these "RUM" bikes.I do realize that you DOT types must follow the party line...BUT whatis needed is some REAL common sense...we are already regulated to death in our day to day lives..:mad3:...whats next...MUST ride wrapped in bubble wrap?????or do you already have too and don't know it???

Every manufactured street legal bike must pass the fuel system integrity check.

Running through the desert is a lot different than getting T-boned by a car, then laying in your bikes fuel because the tank wasn't as good as it could have been.

I would have to say...my personal opinion is that dirt birt are way tougher that any DS legal bike one could buy..I have in the 30 years of riding on and off road have I ever seen an steel or plastic tank fall....and yes I have crashed alot...is there any data on flaming people on crashed t-boned bikes???:shoot:

 

[spc]

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When we talk to u-built owners they say “what about trucks without mufflers”? When we talk to a truck driver about not having a muffler on his truck he says "why don't you do something about Harleys with straight pipes"? When we talk to Harley riders about their straight pipesthey say “why don’t you do something about right hand drive vehicles”? When we talk to drivers of right hand drive vehicles they say “why don’t you do something about dirt bikes ridden on the road”? When we talk to a road riding dirt biker they point the finger back to the beginning of the loop.

There are a number of street legal dual sports available. The KTMs, BMW G450X, Yamaha WR250X, etc. Why don’t we throw our support behind the manufacturers that are willing to go through the steps and get certificated? When we plate a RUM we are undermining the effort that they made and make other manufacturers less willing to do the same thing.



If I had a plated RUM I know what I would do but I cannot give advice on what anyone else should do.

 

[bajaman]

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spc wrote:

When we talk to u-built owners they say “what about trucks without mufflers”? When we talk to a truck driver about not having a muffler on his truck he says "why don't you do something about Harleys with straight pipes"? When we talk to Harley riders about their straight pipesthey say “why don’t you do something about right hand drive vehicles”? When we talk to drivers of right hand drive vehicles they say “why don’t you do something about dirt bikes ridden on the road”? When we talk to a road riding dirt biker they point the finger back to the beginning of the loop.

There are a number of street legal dual sports available. The KTMs, BMW G450X, Yamaha WR250X, etc. Why don’t we throw our support behind the manufacturers that are willing to go through the steps and get certificated? When we plate a RUM we are undermining the effort that they made and make other manufacturers less willing to do the same thing.



If I had a plated RUM I know what I would do but I cannot give advice on what anyone else should do.

ya..thanks for the info...but...I have over $12 k in these bikes and can't afford toget real DS bikes...I cannot see why I am punished for my RUM bikes...I didn't certified them....the dealer told me it was legal...now what...:mad3:

 

[cactusreid]

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this is like dealing with a politician or two maybe! you ask a question and all of a sudden the guy's in the know - don't have any answers! i'm going to cool my jets for a while and bow out of this thread for now. catch ya later boy's.

 

[bajaman]

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cactusreid wrote:

this is like dealing with a politician or two maybe! you ask a question and all of a sudden the guy's in the know - don't have any answers! i'm going to cool my jets for a while and bow out of this thread for now. catch ya later boy's.

I'll keep :Stir...see ya

 

[old trials guy]

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I won't question anyones qualifications but I would present these observations:

Motorcycle manufacturers do not "make" motorcycles, they assemble them from parts sourced from a variety of vendors. I can guarantee that not one of those vendors has two sets of parts, one cheesy lot for RUM bikes and one good lot for DOT bikes. All their parts must meet levels of quality compliance typically managed through a globally endorsed quality system such as ISO.

For those interested here is a link to standards in Europe for "off road" motorcycles:

<<http://www.acem.eu/media/d_Industrystandardoffroadm_89676.pdf>>

Fuel lines and connectors on my bike are the very same components used by major automobile manufacturers around the world. The same goes for lights, wiring connectors, brake fittings, bearings etc etc.

Secondly, let's not call the previous rules for licensing a "mistake". Those were the rules established and administered by those agencies elected by the government to make and enforce rules regarding licensing and insurance.Those agencies may have decided those rules need amending but that doesn't mean the old rules were a mistake or that anyone who followed those rules was trying to do something illegal.

This whole thing stinks when you consider the 200 choppers I saw this weekend most equipped with loud exhausts, overheight handlebars and dubious safety equippment. I can guarantee my dual sport bike is far safer than any one of those bikes and I don't see anyone challenging their right to ride.

otg

 

[North]

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No one did any wrong by making their RUM bike street legal. And now we have the rug pulled out from under us.

I have a 08 610 TE husky. It has a sticker that says "Motorcycle" on it. It passed the BC inspection. So, when I go to renew my insurance, will I be told it is no longer street legal? My point being, that I have heard nothing from any government department on this. Everything said on this site is just heresay.

According to the "Bulletin" since my bike was made for street use, it should be fine. But who knows. People who are being paid by us seem to changing the rules and making up new ones on the fly.

Why and what the hell is going on?

The saying is that if you can't find a reason, it's for money.

 

[thumpdumper]

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North, if ur bike just says "Motorcycle" then you will be fine for licensing. If it says "Restricted Use" Or "Competition", then you are looking at some problems.

My pretty little insurance agent is going to come out and look at my dirty/greasy bike, and climb all over it because I don't know where the sticker is (but it'll have some cowshit on it)? Yeah, right.

They are also supposed to come out and look at the car to make sure it isn't RHD. My skyline is still not designated such, and they never seem to concerned with looking.

The $5000 engineering bill fartypants was reffering to was for a dude to get an engineer to say the stock lighting on his RHD Nissan Skyline (with the beams switched for LHD aim) was fine. Turns out is was better for visability, and had an increased viewing range (as in other vehicles could see it from greater angles, etc). So the JDM car was better, but the TC boys just wanted somebody eles to put their ass on the line.

I have 3 freightliners, none have overflow tanks on the coolant. My BMW Dakar has had a plastic tank since 2000. The fuel system issue is BS too.

I'm thinking that if I strip down the 'berg to frame, repaint it (removing the sticker), take the wheels and fork from my dakar, make some fibreglass covers (Ralley style), that should be pretty damn custom built (or as much so as any kit chopper). Then once its passed, it can go back to creamy bergness...

These are the people we are dealing with:
I was filling my RHD crewcab at the bulk fuel station. Guy pulls up to me in a 2000 ford super-duty, jacked 6 inches, big tires. Starts going off about how dangerous the RHD vehicles are. Ever try one? No, never. But they are dangerous to pass with (how close do you tailgate?) and shouldn't be allowed. Absolute garbage! Right, that's why I've gotten over 200,000kms out of the ones I have for my logging company, without any issues. Turns out he was a transport inspector. As he sputters off there is a puddle of about 250mls of oil that leaked from his truck while he filled. Yep, it sure is my vehicle thats dangerous...

So they will just take the orders they are given, cash their taxpayer funder cheques and go home to their trailers to watch nascar.

New rules for everything these days, gotta wonder when people are going to get tired of listening. Its because terrorists use RUM bikes. Word

 

[fartypants]

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thumpdumper wrote:

They are also supposed to come out and look at the car to make sure it isn't RHD. My skyline is still not designated such, and they never seem to concerned with looking.

The $5000 engineering bill fartypants was reffering to was for a dude to get an engineer to say the stock lighting on his RHD Nissan Skyline (with the beams switched for LHD aim) was fine. Turns out is was better for visability, and had an increased viewing range (as in other vehicles could see it from greater angles, etc). So the JDM car was better, but the TC boys just wanted somebody eles to put their a** on the line.

I have 3 freightliners, none have overflow tanks on the coolant. My BMW Dakar has had a plastic tank since 2000. The fuel system issue is BS too.

I'm thinking that if I strip down the 'berg to frame, repaint it (removing the sticker), take the wheels and fork from my dakar, make some fibreglass covers (Ralley style), that should be pretty damn custom built (or as much so as any kit chopper). Then once its passed, it can go back to creamy bergness...

These are the people we are dealing with:
I was filling my RHD crewcab at the bulk fuel station. Guy pulls up to me in a 2000 ford super-duty, jacked 6 inches, big tires. Starts going off about how dangerous the RHD vehicles are. Ever try one? No, never. But they are dangerous to pass with (how close do you tailgate?) and shouldn't be allowed. Absolute garbage! Right, that's why I've gotten over 200,000kms out of the ones I have for my logging company, without any issues. Turns out he was a transport inspector. As he sputters off there is a puddle of about 250mls of oil that leaked from his truck while he filled. Yep, it sure is my vehicle thats dangerous...

So they will just take the orders they are given, cash their taxpayer funder cheques and go home to their trailers to watch nascar.

New rules for everything these days, gotta wonder when people are going to get tired of listening. Its because terrorists use RUM bikes. Word

Your post if full of misinformation so I will try to comment on each.

What do you mean that Autoplan agents are supposed to come out and look at your car to make dure it isn't rhd?? Rhd`s are allowed in BC. They are trying to log the correct information as to driving position to compile stats.

The $5000 was not spent on a Skyline (no Skylines have been presented to an engineer that I know of) it was for a Landcruiser. RHD headlights do not comply with a re-aim. The study showed that the other lights on the vehicle did comply with our standards however, since there is no requirement for side marker lights/reflectors, they would have to be added. It also proved that headlights from a rhd had to be outright changed to North American DOT approved lights. The only exception to that rule is with SOME projector style headlamps that are switchable. Skylines do not come equipped with these style lights. The stock lights did not provide "better visability" in fact they were found to light up too much of the oncoming lane and when switched to high beam they lit up too much of the ditch and not enough road. You obviously have never done any real research on the matter. I have done lots.

If you remove the compliance label from your bike then this would apply from the bulletin"

Any vehicle originally manufactured as one of these types and subsequently modified then submitted for the purpose of inspection where the compliance label is missing, altered or illegible must also be rejected.

Once again this is not a new rule, it is clarification ofold.

 

[thumpdumper]

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A wee rebuttal...

The girl from the ICBC agent said she was supposed to go out and look at the car to ensure its RHD or LHD (car was at home, but anyway). It wasn't about not insuring the car, but rather, like you say, for stats. I'm just happier with the government knowing as litle as possible. To see if a previously registered bike was RUM or not, they'd have to come out, no?

The boys at the skyline shop seemed adament that it was a Skyline that went thru the engineering, but Landcruiser, whatever, same principle (just because the don't have DOT doesn't mean they are crap). I thought I mentioned the LHD headlights (lows dip down and to the right) but it was the rest of the running gear that they were concerned with. And these provided better visability for other vehicles to see the JDM. Although I rather liked the colour of the headlights on one of my RHD trucks (yellowish blue). The reflectors do have to be added, about $4 of stick on bits, although some Delicas have a reflector in the signal housing, again, that's just nickel and diming it.

But stripping a frame down and using it to assemble a new 'Custom' on, aren't you making a kit bike? How would anyone, inspector or otherwise know if this was off a dissassembled RUM, or ordered from a bike mag as a kit? Its not like they come with the compliance sticks on kit frames. So, yes, I can strip and repaint my berg (its chipped anyway) and use it as a basis to assemble a custom bike made up of dakar, xr and husaberg pieces. And how are you to know from where it came? (or for that matter, I believe I am allowed to use it for such a purpose). Of course, thats just following the old rules...

Sorry, confused about this bit, is it my NVIS sticker that they look at for determination of status?

But who am I to argue with the public service? I'm too busy working so I can give Gordy all my tax money...

 

[kaos]

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spc wrote:

If it does not say "motorcycle" on the bike's compliance label it should not pass the inspection.

I looked at a husky (I think it was a TE610) that Fifth Gear imported and it said "motorcycle" on the compliance label. However, it is not on Transport Canada's list of vehicles allowed to be imported so I do not know how this will work.

and this shows how flawed the system is,while the husky might say ''motorcycle'',it isn't on the riv list.that makes it not legal to ride on the road in canada period.so now we have ''rums'' and non-legal ''motorcycle''designated stickers floating around.

 

[old trials guy]

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This new policy could be a giant step backwards and I think itcould create more problems than it solves. There have always been those that are prepared to circumvent the law, enforcement isa challenge due to lack of resourcesand if caught the penalties are not much of a deterent. Bikes could show up on the road that have not been inspected making the situation worse than it is now.

All you have to do is look at bikes participating in the next outlaw club ride to see how breaking the law is flaunted and nothing happens. Could this policy create a new breed of outlaw motorcyclists?

otg

 

[icanpopawheeli]

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Off topic?

http://www.drivesmartbc.ca/motorcycles/video-bugs-norwegian-motorcycle-union

 

[04klr]

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nothin like good humor to lighten up an aggrevating subject. good one!

 

[dirtdoug]

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Lets see.

What do insurance companies do best? Try not to pay out claims.

What is government all about? Giving the appearance of doing something.

When something like this happens follow the money. No insurer wants to insure bikes because it's bad business. One injury claim wipes out hundreds and hundreds of premiums. See what it costs to insure your bike in other parts of Canada if you don't believe me.

There are all sorts of arcane and bizzare reasons why certain things are seen in govt circles as being "safe" and some aren't. The main thing is to be see as doing something - RUM bikes are an easy target - they are not emmision legal and most are overly loud. The funny part is you can take a road legal bike and easily make it the same so really it comes down to the sticker on the frame??? Who in govt actually knows anything about bikes?

My bike (street legal XR 650L) wouldn't pass if they were hard asses about it - front turn signals (aftermarket) are too small, smog crap has been shitcanned so I'm not emmision legal, all of reflectors have broken off as has my chain gaurd. So no real difference between it and aXR 650 Rwith a baja kit (though I have the stock 85 db muffler on mine).

I seriously doubt (and I have contacts in) that the CVSE guys give a crap about dualsport bikes unless a guy is being an a-hole and they need an excuse to go after him. Fly under the radar and you won't have any problems.

As for getting your bike insured next spring - good luck. I guess if it were me I'd be raising a stink with whoever inspected and passed my bike - they seem to have passed everybody and their dog with no real regards to "safety rules" (I've seen street legal CR 500 and KTM 200 two strokes )and now it's caught up with them and they've taken alot of money from people on this board.

ICBC can just change the rules at any time - that's the problem with telling them to think like a business - they do and there is no money in bike insurance.

 

[BMWNut]

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redpillar wrote:

So at this point, besides the Japanese bikes it looks as though the KTM 450/530/690 are the only bikes that have actually gone through certification process, and have the MC designation on the compliance label. Is this accurate?
I talked to Kenco and he stated that the NVIS on the Husaberg says MC on it but the compliance sticker on the bike says comp use only.
What about the Husqvarna TE's. I believe that they are legal to plate in the US, can they not be imported to Canada and made legal?

Hey there is the lovely BMW G450X. 270 Lbs, fully street legal, fuel injected and a three year warranty. Now with a complimentary race kit too... Just saying

Brian