Bill 13 Off Road Vehicle Act for BC

[tomcycle]

I have not heard from too many people or even the few dealers I have talked to, that are too enthusiastic about this legislation. It will provide them a much leveler playing field to compete from, at least from a taxation point of view. It will also puts the proof of ownership on the seller of the machine. Every dealer has their horror stories of purchasing/selling a stolen bike, in the end it generally cost the dealership.

So yea, they probably are happy with some of this legislation as presented.

(I should get a job a a dealership, if I continue this kind of talk)

T

 

[drifter dave]

A similar scenario to both taxes remaining on used car sales, another win for dealers. And it was no accident.
BC=Bring Cash

So who from the off road community rallied for this legislation?

 

[tomcycle]

No one rallied for this legislation, we brought this on ourselves.

The BC Coroners Office has been a driving force, too many ORV users particularly children users dieing on Crown Land.

BCORMA and ATVBC where on the Registration and Licencing Joint Advisory Group along with a whole lot of other users (non motorized)

 

[DirtClunker]

Here you go, I spent the time and read it for you
Section 5

(iii) circumstances in which the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia may refuse to register an off-road vehicle under this Act or to replace or transfer a certificate of registration under this Act, including, without limitation, if any amount owing in respect of an off-road vehicle under the Consumption Tax Rebate and Transition Act, section 165 (2), 212.1 or 218.1 or Division IV.1 of Part IX of the Excise Tax Act(Canada) or the Provincial Sales Tax Act is not paid to the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia

I'll go to the store and buy some new panties - just in case. I might bunch them up a bit, but I aint going to tie them in a knot until I see how ICBC really implements this thing. There is *a lot* of old bikes out there with no paperwork.

 

[drifter dave]

Should be quite comical watching enforcement officers try and catch people..

 

[teamgrizzly-bc]

Should be quite comical watching enforcement officers try and catch people..

If they're smart, they'll wait by the trucks. Maybe that's why Forestry was in a push to get staging areas in. (Sorry my tinfoil helmet slipped.)

Mike

 

[Bora20]

If they're smart, they'll wait by the trucks. Maybe that's why Forestry was in a push to get staging areas in. (Sorry my tinfoil helmet slipped.)

Mike

They will be smart and that is exactly where they will sit. Then they can ticket for littering as well...

 

[tomcycle]

I doubt if there will be a big change in enforcement, its already in place. RCMP, Natural Resource Officers and Conservation Officers, all can enforce this new legislation. I already know there is too much for the enforcement to handle already, but you can rest assured that these guys will be ready when the new legislation takes effect. To think otherwise would be a big mistake in my opinion.

Lots of other recreational users of crown land already have to comply to many rules. For instance Snow Mobiles, Hunters, Fishermen and all commercial ventures, so the question is why not a multi hundred million dollar user group like ORV's? As user groups go we probable do the most damage per person and have not put a cent back into the use of crown land. Also the ORV sector is growing at an tremendous rate, which means even more pressure on a limited resource. We could have bypassed all this if we got organised like the snow mobilers did years ago, but no, we had to act as if it was our god given right to use crown land as we pleased, so now here we are.

They are not going to catch everyone, in fact I dont even think they have to try, they will sit at the side of the FSR and we will ride up to them like pigs to slaughter. If you dont have your paperwork in order get ready for the fine.........guess what happens when you dont pay your fine? ICBC is in charge of collections so you know how that will play out

 

[tomcycle]

HELP Is there someone smart enough to explain this to me?

HELP Is there someone smart enough to explain this to me?

In this new proposed bill, it has this section entitled

Special Accounts Appropriation and Control Act

What does the section mean?

55 Section 5 of the Special Accounts Appropriation and Control Act, R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 436, is amended


(a) by adding the following subsections:
(2.2) A sub-account, called the Off-Road Vehicle Trail Management Sub-account, of the Forest Stand Management Fund special account is established consisting of the following:
(a) a percentage, prescribed by Treasury Board, of the amount paid into the consolidated revenue fund under section 36 of the Off-Road Vehicle Act;
(b) money accepted by the minister under subsection (2.3) and money from the disposition of securities or other property accepted by the minister under that subsection;
(c) all earnings calculated and attributable to the balance in the sub-account.
(2.3) The minister may accept, on behalf of the government, money, securities or other prescribed property as contributions to the Off-Road Vehicle Trail Management Sub-account.
(2.4) The minister may dispose of securities or other property accepted under subsection (2.3).
(2.5) Despite section 21 (3) of the Financial Administration Act, the minister responsible for the administration of section 56 of the Forest and Range Practices Act may expend amounts out of the Off-Road Vehicle Trail Management Sub-account for purposes related to any of the following:
(a) construction and maintenance of off-road vehicle trails;
(b) support and promotion of the safe and responsible use or operation of off-road vehicles;
(c) expenses directly or indirectly related to the purposes referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this subsection. , and
(b) in subsection (3) by striking out "subsection (1)," and substituting "subsections (1) and (2.2),".

 

[tomcycle]

So no one knows anything about this or the act it refers to? Looked to me like the government was going to put a few bucks aside for trails?

In this new proposed bill, it has this section entitled

Special Accounts Appropriation and Control Act

What does the section mean?

 

[DirtClunker]

It is accounting. A "percentage" (whatever that is) of the amounts collected will go into a special government bank account for the use of trails, offroad promotion and any kind of expenses. All at the discrection of the minister.

Lots of loopholes here (which is *normal* for the government)

(1) Treasury board can determine the percentage that goes into the account.
(2) Minister has discretion to direct the funds as he/she see fit
(3) Expenses can "indirectly" relate to offroad use. E.g. coffee and donuts for the cops doing the enforcement would be a valid expense.

 

[tomcycle]

Thats the why I read it

Although it is not perfect this is a huge step forward as there has never been any recognition of any type of funding for motorizes trails

It could be time to work on a small percentage of the gas tax for off road use as we all pay road taxes in the gas tax

T

 

[joker650]

It is accounting. A "percentage" (whatever that is) of the amounts collected will go into a special government bank account for the use of trails, offroad promotion and any kind of expenses. All at the discrection of the minister.

Lots of loopholes here (which is *normal* for the government)

(1) Treasury board can determine the percentage that goes into the account.
(2) Minister has discretion to direct the funds as he/she see fit
(3) Expenses can "indirectly" relate to offroad use. E.g. coffee and donuts for the cops doing the enforcement would be a valid expense.

Shouldn't 100% of what is collected go into the account, if not, where does the rest of it go?
If 100% of the registration fees do not go towards enforcement then it's a tax grab.
I would suspect that ICBC will be taking the biggest slice of the fees to go towards "Administration"
Hmm.....50% ICBC
30% enforcement
20% trails

I think even that ^^ would be a stretch. Prety sure there will be a percentage dumped into the general revenue.

:Stir

 

[LordEndo]

Documentation fee (general revenue), airport enhancement fee (general revenue), GST on services fee (general revenue), Actual GST on services (general revenue)......just in case I forgot something fee (general revenue).....

 

[livinadream]

I have had a quick review of the proposed Bill 13 off road vehicle act (the first reading version of the act); while I definitely recognize the need for some form of insurance for off-road users. I am not convinced that the draft as it is today is not the solution.
If there is an updated version of the act then please disregard these comments.
I did not spend a lot of time on the material; here are a few of my concerns:

1) So far there is not a good definition as to what is considered an excluded vehicle, if they follow the motor vehicle act, this would mean that motocross bikes and full competition cross country bikes (labeled off road competition only) would not qualify for registration, and could not be used off road on any crown land and much private land.

2) You compete in a Hare Scramble or other similar event on your favorite KTM etc full competition enduro bike (sticker reads off road competion only) the area you are competing in is an area that under the act and regulations the bike must have the registration. Do you now have to compete on a KLR or other qualifying bike?

3) You are riding along your favorite fire road and decide to take a side trip up a really cool trail. Under section 17 (1) I believe this could fall under careless or reckless or endangering wildlife.... This opens you up to Part 4 Section 21 and 22 subsections (1) Where an enforcing officers may stop you and if they feel necessary and without a warrant may seize the off road vehicle for a period of 48 hours.

4) You just purchased the latest greatest off road helmet that Johnny jet is endorsing in all the magazines. Unfortunately this helmet has not been noted as an approved off road helmet under the regulations and you have been stopped by and enforcing officer...what now?

5) You are out for a day of trail riding with your young son/daughter the above mentioned enforcing officer arrives and explains to you that under part 3 section 20 A person 19 years of age or older must not authorize or permit another person under 16 years of age to (a) to use or operate an off – road vehicle


I feel that requiring off road motorcyclist to carry Liability insurance is acceptable, however I believe the motor vehicle act and ICBC need not be involved. It should simply operate like fishing and hunting license with one exception, in order to get the permit you must provide proof of liability coverage. Easily purchased through a private insurer. All off road motorcycle/ATV and Snowmobile riders need to send a note to the Steve Thomson, Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations stating you do not agree with Bill 13 as it is currently worded.

 

[tomcycle]

Just got the news

Bill 13 the Off Road Vehicle Act has passed will be coming into force by regulation this fall. Next steps will be for the ministry to draft the regulations.

Still not to late to get minor changes done, BCORMA and ATVBC sits on the JAG and may still have some input. I dont believe that BCORMA spends much time on this site so any concerns you may have or have already posted I would send directly to BCORMA and cc ATVBC. If you could ask for a reply and post it here we can get the word out

BCORMA contact page http://bcorma.ca/node/29
ATVBC Contact page http://www.atvbc.ca/contact

 

[1wd]

Anyone happen to know if the new rules will keep my closed course enduro model off the forest service roads?

 

[joker650]

Anyone happen to know if the new rules will keep my closed course enduro model off the forest service roads?

Public/ maintained roads need plates & a DL I believe.

 

[tomcycle]

Anyone happen to know if the new rules will keep my closed course enduro model off the forest service roads?

There has been talk regarding the "closed course machines" you wont like what I heard. With the present diversity in the ORVJAG there will be little support for these machines outside of closed course competition, perhaps the government will stumble and not recognize that "closed course means closed course" and just lump your bike in with the rest of the dirt bikes.

Probably have to wait until the fall for details. Newer bikes are easy to be identified as closed course by the serial number and certification, the older bikes will be harder for them to identify

 

[1wd]

There has been talk regarding the "closed course machines" you wont like what I heard. With the present diversity in the ORVJAG there will be little support for these machines outside of closed course competition, perhaps the government will stumble and not recognize that "closed course means closed course" and just lump your bike in with the rest of the dirt bikes.

Probably have to wait until the fall for details. Newer bikes are easy to be identified as closed course by the serial number and certification, the older bikes will be harder for them to identify

Just my luck - I was planning to keep my bike long term so that figures it might end up outlawed...