Bill 13 Off Road Vehicle Act for BC

livinadream

I'm a DSBC sponsor. Please thank me with your busi
Anyone happen to know if the new rules will keep my closed course enduro model off the forest service roads?
My understanding of the new bill is that it will follow the motor vehicle act meaning closed course vehicles will not be able to be licensed. This means also that you will not be able to hold closed course events on public/private lands unless you are all riding licensed vehicles. This law as it is today is not good. It appears the parties representing off road ridders and ATVs did not understand what was in the proposed law when they were representing us. The saddest part is for under aged riders who will to be able to purchase a license.
Most surprising to me is how little interest is being shown by riders as a whole. This law is a ver big deal and potentially very damaging to our sport. yet there is very little chatter about it.
 

DirtClunker

Active member
My understanding of the new bill is that it will follow the motor vehicle act meaning closed course vehicles will not be able to be licensed. This means also that you will not be able to hold closed course events on public/private lands unless you are all riding licensed vehicles. This law as it is today is not good. It appears the parties representing off road ridders and ATVs did not understand what was in the proposed law when they were representing us. The saddest part is for under aged riders who will to be able to purchase a license.
Most surprising to me is how little interest is being shown by riders as a whole. This law is a ver big deal and potentially very damaging to our sport. yet there is very little chatter about it.

I dont believe this. Not allowed to hold closed course events on private property? Show me the law or policy.
 
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LordEndo

Member
Staff member
Okay - so I've finally read the regulation as posted by offworlder above. I think a lot of misinformation is flying about. It's really not that big a deal - to be honest I don't know how this isn't already in place.....it's the same as what the rules are in Ontario.

1 - Every off road vehicle will need ICBC insurance or insurance from another province. This doesn't imply street legal only. My expectation is that ICBC will have some kind of liability only insurance package just like what BCORMA offers now.
2 - Every off road vehicle will need a VIN#.
3 - Under Part 1 ('registration') in the reg it's stated that you 'may' insure with ICBC. To me this implies that BCORMA insurance could be an acceptable alternative. As with most regulation (my job is dealing with WSBC regs) there will probably need to be a guideline on this part - it's not clear why it's a 'may' here but a shall (must) under 15.1.
4 - Prescribed Private land is different than private land. I think it means private land that is managed by the province, but I'm not 100% on this. It's definitely different than typical privately owned land (see the descriptions at the beginning of the reg). Private land is defined as land that isn't Crown Land. So I can ride my unlicensed dirt bike with no VIN# to my heart's content on my land, or on land where I have permission from the owner that is not prescribed private land.
5 - Part 2 Sub 6 - Parent's signature is required for registration of anyone's off road vehicle who is under the age of 18.


So - when I go to a privately owned land for competition such as Mission Raceway to race motocross on tuesday nights, the regulation does not apply (I'm assuming Mission Raceway is privately owned). When I go to IOCO to ride my trials bike at the PNWTA club area on crown land (might be prescribed private land as I think it's owned by Fortis), my trials bike will need a valid VIN and off road insurance. Riding out at Tamahi in the trails and FSR's same deal (unless the FSR's are subject to the motor vehicle act, which I don't think they are).
 
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joker650

Active member
My understanding of the new bill is that it will follow the motor vehicle act meaning closed course vehicles will not be able to be licensed. This means also that you will not be able to hold closed course events on public/private lands unless you are all riding licensed vehicles. This law as it is today is not good. It appears the parties representing off road ridders and ATVs did not understand what was in the proposed law when they were representing us. The saddest part is for under aged riders who will to be able to purchase a license.
Most surprising to me is how little interest is being shown by riders as a whole. This law is a ver big deal and potentially very damaging to our sport. yet there is very little chatter about it.

I think the people that pay the wages get tired if banging their heads against the wall.
 

livinadream

I'm a DSBC sponsor. Please thank me with your busi
Okay - so I've finally read the regulation as posted by offworlder above. I think a lot of misinformation is flying about. It's really not that big a deal - to be honest I don't know how this isn't already in place.....it's the same as what the rules are in Ontario.

1 - Every off road vehicle will need ICBC insurance or insurance from another province. This doesn't imply street legal only. My expectation is that ICBC will have some kind of liability only insurance package just like what BCORMA offers now.
2 - Every off road vehicle will need a VIN#.
3 - Under Part 1 ('registration') in the reg it's stated that you 'may' insure with ICBC. To me this implies that BCORMA insurance could be an acceptable alternative. As with most regulation (my job is dealing with WSBC regs) there will probably need to be a guideline on this part - it's not clear why it's a 'may' here but a shall (must) under 15.1.
4 - Prescribed Private land is different than private land. I think it means private land that is managed by the province, but I'm not 100% on this. It's definitely different than typical privately owned land (see the descriptions at the beginning of the reg). Private land is defined as land that isn't Crown Land. So I can ride my unlicensed dirt bike with no VIN# to my heart's content on my land, or on land where I have permission from the owner that is not prescribed private land.
5 - Part 2 Sub 6 - Parent's signature is required for registration of anyone's off road vehicle who is under the age of 18.


So - when I go to a privately owned land for competition such as Mission Raceway to race motocross on tuesday nights, the regulation does not apply (I'm assuming Mission Raceway is privately owned). When I go to IOCO to ride my trials bike at the PNWTA club area on crown land (might be prescribed private land as I think it's owned by Fortis), my trials bike will need a valid VIN and off road insurance. Riding out at Tamahi in the trails and FSR's same deal (unless the FSR's are subject to the motor vehicle act, which I don't think they are).

Because as a group we did not voice our opinion this conversation is now redundant… I do want to respond to a couple of your comments.

1) This is nothing like Ontario as they have a totally different Motor vehicle act and do not have government auto insurance.


2) I believe the private land the act is referring to are the lands occupied by forest companies mining companies etc however the definition is not clear it just states its other then crown land . I would not be so quick to assume that they don't mean all private lands. Just as a Safeway parking lot is private land, however Safeway can not give you permission to operate you car in their parking lot with out ICBC coverage.
One thing that is for sure Forest companies are not going to be able to give you permission to ride on any land that is part of a timber license with out proper registration and insurance ( This is the land that a lot of enduros and Hare scrambles are held on) meaning that off road use only motorcycles will not qualify.

3) If you read bill 13 as it is, with out also having in front of you a copy of the Motor Vehicle Act and the Motor Vehicle Regulations it would be impossible to understand the intent of the bill and how it affects you. Through out the bill they refer to the act and the regulations particularly with respect to definitions.

4) The reason the Bill says anyone under the age of 18 requires a parent or guardians signature is that under Canadian law they are under the age of majority and can not legally sign a contract. This does not mean that someone under 16 can ride an off road vehicle. If the bill follows the Motor vehicle act then operators under 16 will not be able operate a motor vehicle.

5) It is unlikely that ICBC will have some kind of insurance package just like BCORMA, simply because the Motor vehicle regulations and Motor vehicle act apply. BC is different then most other provinces because of government insurance. Motor vehicle coverage has been decided by legislation, they can not just come up with something to fit this new bill with out actually violating existing motor vehicle laws. I believe this is why BILL 13 has been tied into the Motor Vehicle act and regulations it speeds the process up for government with out the need to rewrite the regulations. To change the act would require years of debate by government and rewriting the motor vehicle act. Good for government bad for us!
What you might see is special pricing.


It would be great if you were correct in your points in fact I really wish you were, unfortunately we are a province with government legislated and controlled auto insurance a very complex system. I am afraid the worst case scenario will be true. I have not even touched on the other issues that already exist under the act such as what if you owe for penalty points, currently you can not purchase insurance or register your vehicle until you pay. Or what if you owe back child support and there is a drivers license withhold order against you. Will you still be able register your bike not likely.

There are so many reason why this being handed over to ICBC and the motor vehicle branch is not good for our sport.

In any case Bill 13 is now law, we will have to wait and see how the police and the courts deal with us, my guess is that 2014 and 2015 may not be very pleasant for some of us.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Mr dream
you would be mistaken if you think we were not at the table when this legislation was being drafted. BCorma had its executive director sitting on the joiny advisory group, also i believe but am not positive that the current pres of bcorma was also was involved on the joint advisory group. These guys sighned a confidantiality agreement and seem to be holding the silance
 

livinadream

I'm a DSBC sponsor. Please thank me with your busi
Mr dream
you would be mistaken if you think we were not at the table when this legislation was being drafted. BCorma had its executive director sitting on the joiny advisory group, also i believe but am not positive that the current pres of bcorma was also was involved on the joint advisory group. These guys sighned a confidantiality agreement and seem to be holding the silance

I had no doubt that BCORMA was at the table, it would have been a bigger concern if they were not. I hope I did not give the impression that I am critical of their efforts, I am not.

My criticism was aimed at all of us, myself included we were very quiet during this very important discussion.

BCORMA does an exceptional job lobbying on our behalf, their work would be much easier if we all assisted in the effort by contacting our local MLA and expressing our concerns with respect to BILL 13 or any other legislative issue BCORMA is fighting on our behalf. By contacting your MLA you show government that BCORMA has a strong united organized group behind them.

The horse people, environmental groups , mountain bike groups are much better at organizing then we are, as a result we are loosing more and more riding areas to these groups.

We have a tendency to think ok the guys at BCORMA will take care of us, however we need to show government that BCORMA has an army and is not just the three or four guys at the meeting who have concerns.
 

livinadream

I'm a DSBC sponsor. Please thank me with your busi
Finally some positive information on Bill 13

I have spoken to people involved in the implementation, as earlier mentioned there would be all sorts of legislation to overcome were ICBC to provide coverage to the letter of Bill 13.

The implementation will work like this:

All off road motorcycles will have to be registered.

You will still be able to purchase your insurance coverage from private insurers. However if you cross/or ride any public roads you will have to purchase required basic coverage through ICBC.

If you are riding with an under aged rider, they will not be able to cross/ ride public road because they can not purchase ICBC coverage .

It is important to note that now that Bill 13 is law, the door is open legislation can be changed easier allowing government to impose stricter rules on us down the road. It is important that we not become complacent. We must all pay attention to any future proposed changes and not sit back and let them pass easily.

One of the best things we can do to keep our riding areas open, and regulations down. Is to report the bozos when you see them. Show industry and government that we are responsibly using the property. Help them catch the vandals. Become an asset to their loss prevention programs.

I hope everyone has a great and safe summer of riding.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Can you find out: when we register a vehicle, will we have to pay tax?

If you have followed the thread

Implementation is for this fall with one year for full compliance

Yes you will have to pay tax if you did not already pay, proof of tax paid is required, your receipt from the dealer will work nicely
 

joker650

Active member
YAY...Tax grab !
They are making folks pay out all this extra cash for recreational fun. Why the fak do they also need to charge people TAX on the sale/purchase of a used "dirt bike"?
Oh yeah...BECAUSE THEY CAN :gaah:

The " Required basic Coverage" from ICBC...... Any idea on the cost?

SO a kid wants to get into riding...finds himself an $800 bike, has a little cash left over (from his paper route) to buy a helmet and rear tire.....maybe into it for a grand now(mom's an alchoholic and doesn't help out,dead beat dad).
How much more on top of this $1000 does he have to fork out to the government in taxes and ICBC coverage to be told that "Yes young man..you are now a dirt biker. Did you pay the recycling levy on the rear tire?"

For many people dirt biking is barley affordable, but they do it because it keeps the kids busy and out of trouble.
I foresee more kids getting stuck in town with nothing to do on weekends other than raise a little hell in the Hood.. :gaah:
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Joker, dont tell me you think just because you didnt pay the tax, means you dont have to pay the tax???? (so that cash deal on that bike might not have been a good as you though huh)

Its only going to be a 48 dollar one time charge to register your bike, that should not break the bank

Kids cant get insurance, not to mention a drivers licence. You have always needed both to use and FSR. Now your going to tell me that your kid has a right to share the FSR with 120,000 lbs logging truck. mmmmmm let me see now, that sound like a silly idea.

Your kid can still ride his registered dirt bike on any trails. No insurance required for trails

I can tell you that neither ICBC nor most of the government are excited about this. They know all to well that this if going to be a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow. Registration and Licencing has been a major push by the BC coroners office, why? because we as adults are too stupid to realise that we are killing our kids. So now the government has to step in and protect our kids from us.

TT
 

sylvain

"2018 Forest Fairies"
YAY...Tax grab !
They are making folks pay out all this extra cash for recreational fun. Why the fak do they also need to charge people TAX on the sale/purchase of a used "dirt bike"?
Oh yeah...BECAUSE THEY CAN :gaah:


The question is more what we did to go to that point.

Why they charge tax, it's because everyone turn to government to pay when they have a problem.
USA are the other way, do you want to pay 100,000$ bill if you broke your leg on dirt bike and didn't pay your insurance...
We have universal health coverage, social security, ecologist, ... all that have a price

It's all the Canadian legislation that is in cause.
It look it's not that bad, no one go to the pooling.

The best to do, is to follow what happen and group together to help to keep the legislation not to crazy!
Do we have real organisation that can represent us?
Are we involved enough in those organisation to get real benefit?
 
ICBC has been trying for years to get its hands into the off road industry. BC has 4.4 million people living in it and lets conservatively say Half a million have one dirt bike ( I would think its higher but for argument sake lets call it Half a million dirt bikes). So they want you to register and pay tax and get a license and make your bike "legal" what ever that means. So lets look at this just a little. We will take the easy one the number we got of 49.00 the cost of registering the bike. So $49.00 x 500,000.00 = 24500000 Just in registration fees based on Half a million dirt bikes. Lets throw a value of 1000.00 per bike on that and the tax of 12% on each one we get $120.00
and x 500,000 bikes we get $60000000 and we cant for get the $18 ICBC charges for paperwork. so 18 x 500,000 = 9000000.

So lets recap conservatively biased on 500,000 off road motorcycles I have not included ATV's, side by sides, snowmobiles. So my numbers are concertive.

Registration of $49.00 per bike is $24,500,000
Random value of $1000 per bike tax is $60,000,000
And ICBC paperwork at $18 per bike is $9,000,000
and the total income for ICBC is!!!!!!!!!!!! $93,500,000 For doing next to nothing.

I have also not included what insurance will cost because they have not said or what it will cost to have a Missing declaration done or if its needed.

Now tell me how its not a cash grab?
 
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Shuswap

Member
We are not going to prevent even one single accident by "registering" our off-road vehicles. Who rides safer because of a sticker?
It is a cash GRAB.
It'll cost a great deal to enforce, taking $ and man-hours away from more important(to me anyway) matters.
MANY will ignore the legislation.

So, how is this helping the general population/off-road community again??
Maybe they can learn a few management skills from the defunct gun registry, eh?

Tom, I know your heart is in the right place and you're taking in the bigger pic, trying to make sense of it, but a spade is a spade and history has taught me this isn't for the benefit of anyone I know of.
 
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tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Hey Victoria Supermoto and Shuswap

You are going to have to redo your calculations

maybe, just maybe there are 50000 off road bikes of that 25 percent will rarely see the light of day, buried in a garage somewhere, a farm or cabin.

I cant speak for ICBC but I dont know why they would want anything to do with the off road licencing and particularly the insurance. Insurance is already well covered by the private sector and no one in government has the appetite to make mandatory ICBC insurance for off road vehicles, too much grief for too little reward.

As for the tax dollars ICBC only collects that for the BC taxman, so ICBC does not benefit directly from the tax. Just because you did not pay tax does not mean you don't have to pay tax. I have had this conversation on this site several times, PST is payable on a private transaction, the only difference not is they have a way of collecting, of course this is only on used bikes on private sales, as those of us that bought from a dealer paid the tax already.

I dont know how your business operates but for me to get the kind of paperwork filled out that ICBC will require, 49.00 would be considered a break even for me. You local ICBC agent will take a cut then the registry need to be maintained with the rest of the money. Yup I agree its going to be expensive, but we as off road riders had all the opportunity in the world to get organised and manage ourselves, but decided we would be pirates and only worry about our own little kingdom. The snow mobilers manage themselves and quite successfully, but its too late for that model.

We have no one else to blame for whats coming down the pipe now.

Am I looking at the bigger picture? I dont know, but I have ridden in many states that require registration and the off road community thrives and has good representation. To me it was a foregone conclusion we had to go the route of registration and licencing, particularly with the huge growth of ATVs and now SxSs (we are outnumbered 4 to 1)

You can count on enforcement, remember who is behind this, BC coroner's office (because we cant seem to take care of our kids) and the non motorised user groups (because they just plain dont like us) we are way outnumbered on this one.


If everyone that said they buy the BCORMA Trail Pass actually did we would have a decent war chest. lets just pretend for a moment

Say we sold only TPs to half of the riders out there that would be 25000 x 45.00 =1,125,000.00 per year with the TP program over 5 years old now, that would be a nice chunk of money to hire the right guys to do the job. But the truth of the matter BCORMA is lucky to sell 500 TPs per year. Not even enough to hire a secretary to answer the phone.

I told all of you guys time and time again, 100 percent of the TP sales stay within our community, and when the government gets involved we will not see one penny. This is starting to sound like a "I told you so"

Its too late to stop Registration and Licencing. but its not to late to double down and buy another (or first) BCORMA Trail Pass, with a little money and luck we can help shape the rules that will be imposed on us. Or you can just sit on this and other sites and complain how the government is sticking it to us all the time. Either way a small group of volunteers will keep on arguing with the government on our (your) behalf

Stepping off the soap box now

Tom
 
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