offworlder
Moderator
I've paid my dues, and been a huge proponent of BCORMA, but I too feel extremely disappointed in the lack of information regarding this coming from BCORMA !
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Bill 13 Off Road Vehicle Act for BC
- Thread starter tomcycle
- Start date
I've paid my dues, and been a huge proponent of BCORMA, but I too feel extremely disappointed in the lack of information regarding this coming from BCORMA !
Victoria Supermoto
New member
And BTW, is "Victoria Supermoto" a dude or a chick? Bitchy attitude aside, I keep reading that as "Victoria Supermodel" and can't help but think of lingerie catalogs. If you're a dude, you might want to think about a slightly manlier handle
KF
Umm oook I thought those photos never made it onto the internet.....
Victoria Supermoto
New member
Same guy and yes this all concerns me given the inplacations to motorcycling in BC. This will be opening the door to laws in the woods that are simply not needed. Speed limits tickets for unsafe riding and so on.
Victoria Supermoto
New member
So closed course is a track or woods where a track is set up? Riding a Rum bike in a race will be illegal under the current proposed laws. I am happy that this thread has picked up speed.
Everyone I have spoken to (and yes I know a lot of people at least 3) involved in lots and lots of aspects of motorcycling were and have never been consulted by BCCORMA or anyone on the new laws or speaking for the many riders out there.
Everyone I have spoken to (and yes I know a lot of people at least 3) involved in lots and lots of aspects of motorcycling were and have never been consulted by BCCORMA or anyone on the new laws or speaking for the many riders out there.
offworlder
Moderator
Which begs the question, what is going on with BCORMA ? While I'd like to think we have a champion speaking for us, I'd appreciate it if they'd chime in here to clarify what happened and why ? I'm not jumping to any conclusions, and hoping that they fought hard (and continue to fight hard) in our interests, but we do need clarity around where to put our support, so that our voices are indeed heard.
BCORMA, of you're listening, please remove the cone of silence and enlighten us !
DirtClunker
Active member
BCORMA is *not* listening or watching this. You gotta go to them.
Victoria Supermoto
New member
That is the problem. EX prez made this thread about BCORMA. BCORMA bills its self as "The Voice of Dirtriders" yet is no where to be seen...
Victoria Supermoto
New member
[h=1]Forum: BCORMA British Columbia Off Road Motorcycle Association[/h] This will be all off road motorcyclist's provicial voice. Here you will be able to find links and find out what they are up to.
Vicsumo
Everytime I read your posts it seems I am being blamed for something?
Yes I am the Ex President of BCORMA, there is a reason that I am the Ex. We can go into that another time. But I still support the original concept when we started BCORMA. And yes this forum is for BCORMA discussion, however I doubt if it has BCORMAs Blessing anymore.
For the record I have approached BCORMA and suggested that they take a more active role on the discussion about the R&L on this forum, they agreed but said their hands are tied because of the confidentiality agreement they signed. I told them it would look bad if you just say silent. I could only suggest that BCORMA get involved the rest is up to them. I cant say for sure but by BCORMAs silence I can only assume they are too busy to openly address many of the dirt bikers concerns regarding R&L or they feel they can not comment, either way they should say something?
Also Vicsumo
I would like to get some clarification from you just to make sure we are talking about the same thing
1 RUM Restricted Use Motorcycle Basically a dirt bike / trail bike Decal on steering head denotes Restricted Use Motorcycle
2 Competition or Closed Course Competition only MX bikes etc ie KTM XCW (most of the KTM line I understand are listed as Closed Course Competition only, but I could be wrong.
T
Everytime I read your posts it seems I am being blamed for something?
Yes I am the Ex President of BCORMA, there is a reason that I am the Ex. We can go into that another time. But I still support the original concept when we started BCORMA. And yes this forum is for BCORMA discussion, however I doubt if it has BCORMAs Blessing anymore.
For the record I have approached BCORMA and suggested that they take a more active role on the discussion about the R&L on this forum, they agreed but said their hands are tied because of the confidentiality agreement they signed. I told them it would look bad if you just say silent. I could only suggest that BCORMA get involved the rest is up to them. I cant say for sure but by BCORMAs silence I can only assume they are too busy to openly address many of the dirt bikers concerns regarding R&L or they feel they can not comment, either way they should say something?
Also Vicsumo
I would like to get some clarification from you just to make sure we are talking about the same thing
1 RUM Restricted Use Motorcycle Basically a dirt bike / trail bike Decal on steering head denotes Restricted Use Motorcycle
2 Competition or Closed Course Competition only MX bikes etc ie KTM XCW (most of the KTM line I understand are listed as Closed Course Competition only, but I could be wrong.
T
Victoria Supermoto
New member
Rum = can't ride it on the road that includes KTM etc
Why I ask?
Seems there are a lot of Closed Course Competition only bikes out there Lots of guys over the years have been importing dirt bikes from the USA but bringing them in as Closed Course Competition only bikes. They did this to circumvent the RIV importation rules and BC Tax, many of these bikes are currently racing and just plain riding on crown land. Now the question is, can you register a Closed Course Competition only bike.
I also have been told, but I have not verified this, most KTMS are imported as Closed Course Competition only bikes. Now the problem is most races take place on crown land and use old FSRs to some degree. Although many promoters (PNWMA) claim that these are closed courses, are they?
Many of these guys also ride there MX bikes and Closed Course Competition only bikes between races.
How is this all going to work?
My understanding of Closed Course Competition only bikes, means that you will not be able to register these bikes and not be able to use them on crown land. There are a lot of guys buying these bikes used, with the intent of just riding them on trails.
Anyhow something that probably should be clarified before its too late. Hopefully someone else involved with these typed of bikes could chime in.
Tom
Seems there are a lot of Closed Course Competition only bikes out there Lots of guys over the years have been importing dirt bikes from the USA but bringing them in as Closed Course Competition only bikes. They did this to circumvent the RIV importation rules and BC Tax, many of these bikes are currently racing and just plain riding on crown land. Now the question is, can you register a Closed Course Competition only bike.
I also have been told, but I have not verified this, most KTMS are imported as Closed Course Competition only bikes. Now the problem is most races take place on crown land and use old FSRs to some degree. Although many promoters (PNWMA) claim that these are closed courses, are they?
Many of these guys also ride there MX bikes and Closed Course Competition only bikes between races.
How is this all going to work?
My understanding of Closed Course Competition only bikes, means that you will not be able to register these bikes and not be able to use them on crown land. There are a lot of guys buying these bikes used, with the intent of just riding them on trails.
Anyhow something that probably should be clarified before its too late. Hopefully someone else involved with these typed of bikes could chime in.
Tom
THIS, right here, is one of the huge problems. Of course people ride their dirtbike (or trials bike) in the woods on weekends and also use it to race hare scrambles and enduros also out in the woods. If this means that I have to buy some other bike to ride on weekends, and only bring my CRF 150R out for sanctioned race days, that's ridiculous. (It's hard enough finding a bike that is small/light enough for me to ride in technical terrain... it's not like I have a lot of options).
I wonder how the trials riders are feeling about this? Anyone know? I doubt there's any way a trials bike in Canada would be labeled anything but a 'closed course' bike. (Though they are street legal in Europe...)
Victoria Supermoto
New member
*or prescribed private lands and from what I have found out the understanding is basically anywhere.
Motogirl has hit the nail on the head. If you can not currently plate it for the street you will under the current wording not be legally able to ride your bike. If this is the case and I do hope it is not then BCORMA has successfully lobbied to have Dirt biking as its known outlawed.
Tom you have called me several names and tried to take a few pot shots at me and have asked what I am after. Here is your answer: To get attention to this subject. It seems to have worked people are talking about it and asking questions. ICBC has a great habit of demanding secrecy when putting this stuff together so they can avoid public input or unwanted attention to its addenda. I will point out the one ticket = unsafe driver premioms that almost went through but was stopped due to public outcry. Why Do I care about all of this well I run Victoria Supermoto, have several bikes, mod on a forum, run some blogs, work in the industry and have been doing so for a long time. I would say a good 80% of my friends, most of my sumo riders and one or two people I look at sideways ride off road. I used to 4x4 alot and this sort of thing happened and things started getting shut down because of special intrest groups crying about this or that and the 4x4 community couldn't get there shit together and stand as one. I do not want to see off road riding end or have ICBC use stats with it to push through laws for more tickets or more nanny laws or just make insurance go up. My opinion is this is still just a cash grab.
North
Active member
Well, this has got me reading the "Off Road Vehicle Act".
So much for a "non-resident" coming up here to ride for a day off-road on a Dirt Bike.
I don't like all this seizure stuff: "the officer, without a warrant, may seize the off-road vehicle, vehicle or equipment referred to in paragraph (b) of this subsection for the purpose of obtaining or preserving evidence." It seems to be on the whim of the Officer to seize a Bike for any reason.
I did see anything about having insurance. You just need your Bike registered with ICBC? So I can ride a Bike off-road if my insurance has lapsed? From what I read. I would have to re-register it as an off-road vehicle and put a number plate on it.
They have made impossible to register a Bike without all the paper work. There should be grace period exception for this.
So much for a "non-resident" coming up here to ride for a day off-road on a Dirt Bike.
I don't like all this seizure stuff: "the officer, without a warrant, may seize the off-road vehicle, vehicle or equipment referred to in paragraph (b) of this subsection for the purpose of obtaining or preserving evidence." It seems to be on the whim of the Officer to seize a Bike for any reason.
I did see anything about having insurance. You just need your Bike registered with ICBC? So I can ride a Bike off-road if my insurance has lapsed? From what I read. I would have to re-register it as an off-road vehicle and put a number plate on it.
They have made impossible to register a Bike without all the paper work. There should be grace period exception for this.
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Victoria Supermoto
New member
Did you read the part about having your bike seized if your riding in an "unsafe manor" yet they don't say what that is.
North
Active member
Yes, I guess that means whatever they deem, or want. Pulling a wheelie, siding in a turn, or just because.
It's one thing being crazy and riding like mad through a group of People. Quite another trying to improve your riding skills, or just having some fun.
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Section 3.1.16 - You pay, you play.
Tom, where did you find the definition of Closed Course Competition only bikes, is it in the motor vehicle act?
Got it from the RIV site
While I was on the BCORMA board, there was never much discussion on Closed Course bikes, for me it was the assumption that the vast majority of dirt bikes were imported as RUM, and there was no distinction between the two. Now that we are looking into the new act there might be a problem.
I will send a link to this thread to the McClelland, President of BCORMA and ask for a response.
Victoria Supermoto
New member
Sounds like a lot has changed since you were on the board.