BMW goes Chinese!!

[deuce]

Looks like the only way BMW can figure out how to lower prices is to put in crappy Chinese motors. I can see the recall letters for these being 1 or 2 pages long :shock:

BMW Press release from Milan bike show:

"Our next step is to increase our purchasing and cooperation activities in the Asian markets. Purchasing parts and components in the Asian region is an important means of reducing the currency disadvantages of the euro – in particular as compared to the yen. This is the only way we can create some leeway within cost structures so as to enable us to continue to offer our customers innovations and technical highlights in the medium category.

For this reason, we have decided to procure the single-cylinder engine for the G 650 Xcountry from a Chinese supplier who will manufacture the engine according to our BMW specifications and quality standards. And the 450 cc engine for our new, innovative BMW sports enduro will be made by Kymco in Taiwan in a production facility equipped according to BMW specifications." :shoot:

 

[joker650]

imported post

imported post

Whel there goes any interest in buying one of them ones.

Commies:ted:

 

[tomcycle]

imported post

imported post

Get over it

Everything is made in China

The Global Economy, its been here for many years

 

[skidmark43]

imported post

imported post

Too bad they didn't go with any of those innovative & competitive Canadian engine builders.

:hb:

 

[klrman]

imported post

imported post

KLR's are built in Thailand and they are not so bad! But BMW is full of it. I got some Magura bars for under $100 for my V-Strom, then BMW goes and buys out Magura and charges Nearly $400 for the same bar. Expect Chinese motors at BMW prices.

 

[Guest]

imported post

imported post

BMW charges so much they should be able to gold plate their engines, and cut the sale price of their bikes in half, and still make a tidy profit.

 

[joker650]

imported post

imported post

From ADV

Broken Again

My daily commuter is an '07 GS Adventure. It's clocked just over 26,000 k's (not miles) and is only 14 months old and bought new. So far it's had two catastropic failures. At just over 20,000 k's the right hand cylinder exhaust valve decided to depart company from it's installed location and turned the cylinder into a blender. New pistons due to matched weights, con rod, head valves etc. etc. were fitted under BMW warranty. Now at just over 26,000 k's the final drive has turned into a blender and it's in again being repaired under BMW warranty. All this in the last 6 month is begining to tick me off some what. Plus BMW South Africa don't give a damn. It's just a case of fix it under warranty and bugger the inconvienience to the customer, not even a limp appology is forth comming from the man in charge.

Word of warning don't go off the beaten track on your GS Adventure you won't fix the problems I've encountered or with the tool kit supplied under the seat!

Any one else suffering this same poor quality of parts that probably come from an emerging third world countrry supplier under the umbrella of BMW original parts.

The worlds once most reliable intercontinental tourer/adventure bike just can't hack it anymore! I think some Orange crush is on the menu to replace this unreliable antiquated agricultural tractor.

Screw quality...
GO CHINA GO ! :tup:

 

[Guest]

imported post

imported post

joker650 wrote:

From ADV

Broken Again

My daily commuter is an '07 GS Adventure. It's clocked just over 26,000 k's (not miles) and is only 14 months old and bought new. So far it's had two catastropic failures. At just over 20,000 k's the right hand cylinder exhaust valve decided to depart company from it's installed location and turned the cylinder into a blender. New pistons due to matched weights, con rod, head valves etc. etc. were fitted under BMW warranty. Now at just over 26,000 k's the final drive has turned into a blender and it's in again being repaired under BMW warranty. All this in the last 6 month is begining to tick me off some what. Plus BMW South Africa don't give a damn. It's just a case of fix it under warranty and bugger the inconvienience to the customer, not even a limp appology is forth comming from the man in charge.

Word of warning don't go off the beaten track on your GS Adventure you won't fix the problems I've encountered or with the tool kit supplied under the seat!

Any one else suffering this same poor quality of parts that probably come from an emerging third world countrry supplier under the umbrella of BMW original parts.

The worlds once most reliable intercontinental tourer/adventure bike just can't hack it anymore! I think some Orange crush is on the menu to replace this unreliable antiquated agricultural tractor.

Screw quality...
GO CHINA GO ! :tup:

My bmw only had 9,700 kms on it when i sold it.

2 motors, a tranny, and drive , as well as many small parts in that time.

And had to fight for warranty on every single item.

paid for much of it myself as they would not warranty it.



Only bike maker i found that would argue warranty on everything.

Find Honda is the other way and warrantied stuff they likely should not need to.

But makes me really like honda products, not loathe them like i do a certain german company.

 

[klrman]

imported post

imported post

mcfly wrote:

joker650 wrote:

From ADV

Broken Again

My daily commuter is an '07 GS Adventure. It's clocked just over 26,000 k's (not miles) and is only 14 months old and bought new. So far it's had two catastropic failures. At just over 20,000 k's the right hand cylinder exhaust valve decided to depart company from it's installed location and turned the cylinder into a blender. New pistons due to matched weights, con rod, head valves etc. etc. were fitted under BMW warranty. Now at just over 26,000 k's the final drive has turned into a blender and it's in again being repaired under BMW warranty. All this in the last 6 month is begining to tick me off some what. Plus BMW South Africa don't give a damn. It's just a case of fix it under warranty and bugger the inconvienience to the customer, not even a limp appology is forth comming from the man in charge.

Word of warning don't go off the beaten track on your GS Adventure you won't fix the problems I've encountered or with the tool kit supplied under the seat!

Any one else suffering this same poor quality of parts that probably come from an emerging third world countrry supplier under the umbrella of BMW original parts.

The worlds once most reliable intercontinental tourer/adventure bike just can't hack it anymore! I think some Orange crush is on the menu to replace this unreliable antiquated agricultural tractor.

Screw quality...
GO CHINA GO ! :tup:

My bmw only had 9,700 kms on it when i sold it.

2 motors, a tranny, and drive , as well as many small parts in that time.

And had to fight for warranty on every single item.

paid for much of it myself as they would not warranty it.



Only bike maker i found that would argue warranty on everything.

Find Honda is the other way and warrantied stuff they likely should not need to.

But makes me really like honda products, not loathe them like i do a certain german company.

That's scary. I keep reading the same thing on the VStrom forums as well that many were former BMW owners and have just had enough of BMW. Too bad as was really looking at the GS, but have been warned so many times and PMed from many other forums as well not to go for it.

 

[BMWNut]

imported post

imported post

klrman wrote:

KLR's are built in Thailand and they are not so bad! But BMW is full of it. I got some Magura bars for under $100 for my V-Strom, then BMW goes and buys out Magura and charges Nearly $400 for the same bar. Expect Chinese motors at BMW prices.

Sorry KLRMAN you are wrong there as Magura is part of "The Munz-Magenwirth Group" and has nothing to do with BMW. You might want to check up on a fact or two before spouting off. Just go to their website...

 

[klrman]

imported post

imported post

BMWNut wrote:

klrman wrote:

KLR's are built in Thailand and they are not so bad! But BMW is full of it. I got some Magura bars for under $100 for my V-Strom, then BMW goes and buys out Magura and charges Nearly $400 for the same bar. Expect Chinese motors at BMW prices.

Sorry KLRMAN you are wrong there as Magura is part of "The Munz-Magenwirth Group" and has nothing to do with BMW. You might want to check up on a fact or two before spouting off. Just go to their website...

Was not spouting off. This comes from one of the managers at Magura and he said BMW owns them 100%. He never said what umbrella BMW bought them out under but I never asked because I did not care.

In the tour business we are in, we work with many companies and know who the real owners are, but most don't as they are under so many different umbrellas. Same goes in any industry. With manufacturers, they often use every trick in the book to make as much money as possible charging upwards of 1000% or more at times for the exact same product.

 

[BMWNut]

imported post

imported post

deuce wrote:

Looks like the only way BMW can figure out how to lower prices is to put in crappy Chinese motors.

Crap can come from anywhere Deuce. What matters is design, materials, and quality control. If these remain the same as they have for the past 15 years then the engines will still be bullet proof. As no one has actually used these motors yet there is no way to tell.

You're use of the adjective "crappy" is completely uncalledas no one has tried these motors yet,and indicates that you just have an axe to grind. Get over yourself.

Many high tech productscome out of China now, IBM laptops, Apple computers,their space program, etc. Does anyone remember when "Made in Japan" meant "cheap crap"? Now you're holding out "Made in Japan" as a blessing of quality and value. Well the same thing is happening in China now, just at a much faster pacethan it happened in Japan. Am I saying the engines will be perfect? I can't tell at this time, nor can you.

If you can't bring yourself to buy an Asian manufactured product then there are German and Italian made bikes...

There was a speaker in Victoria this week talking about the Chinese economy etc. He said a part manufactured in Ohio that costs $42 US, $39 Can , to make costsonly $1 to make in China. He also cited that China graduated more engineers this year than the entire english speaking world combined.

People aren't stupid Deuce. Given an option they don't continue to buy products that don't work for them. BMW-Motorrad Canada has increased sales approx. 70% over the last 5 years alone, while some of the Japanese companies have lost market share lately, Honda and Yamaha I believe.I'm talkingreal people spending real money not "nameless internet sources" having "issues", 'causemoney talks andBS walks.

Are there BMW bikes out there that break done? Yes. Does every brand have machines that break done? Yes. Does BMW have the best warranty in the world? Yes. Could they afford to back their bikes up this way if they "exploded" all the time? No, that's a ridiculous proposition.

In the stories quoted the "people" had trouble getting warranty. Why? What dealer in their right mind turns down warranty work that walks in the door? Your manufacturer is always your best customer, and they always pay on time. There is only one reason I can think ofnot toperform warranty work, and that is in the case of abuse. I'm not saying that's what happened here but that's the only thing that comes to mind.

I applogise to anyone I might have offended in my rant.

End of rant. :TTT:

 

[klrman]

imported post

imported post

I guess that means you like your BMW I like my bikes too, but don't know if it is worth defending them tooth and nail like you do, but you are passionate about your bike, which means your happy and thats what it is all about.

 

[BMWNut]

imported post

imported post

klrman wrote:

BMWNut wrote:

klrman wrote:

KLR's are built in Thailand and they are not so bad! But BMW is full of it. I got some Magura bars for under $100 for my V-Strom, then BMW goes and buys out Magura and charges Nearly $400 for the same bar. Expect Chinese motors at BMW prices.

Sorry KLRMAN you are wrong there as Magura is part of "The Munz-Magenwirth Group" and has nothing to do with BMW. You might want to check up on a fact or two before spouting off. Just go to their website...

Was not spouting off. This comes from one of the managers at Magura and he said BMW owns them 100%. He never said what umbrella BMW bought them out under but I never asked because I did not care.

In the tour business we are in, we work with many companies and know who the real owners are, but most don't as they are under so many different umbrellas. Same goes in any industry. With manufacturers, they often use every trick in the book to make as much money as possible charging upwards of 1000% or more at times for the exact same product.

Sorry if I'm wrong KLRMAN but I can find no reference anywhere to BMW buying Magura, the holding company, or the umbrella corporation. The only information I find is BMW using them for many years on many models. Do you have any other source?

 

[BMWNut]

imported post

imported post

klrman wrote:

I guess that means you like your BMW I like my bikes too, but don't know if it is worth defending them tooth and nail like you do, but you are passionate about your bike, which means your happy and thats what it is all about.

YES! Being happy is what it's all about!

I just thought the comments from some parties were getting cheap, and I would make one post and then like I said "End of Rant":hb:

 

[klrman]

imported post

imported post

You're right, some cheap shots were thrown and from me too! That's why we have people like yourself to make us aware of our own ignorances from time to time. This way we can learn from eachother :hb:

The guy is the manager for Magura products and we chatted on the telephone for about 10 minutes about 2 months ago as I found out he was from a town near where my Mom was born in Austria. He sounded somewhat secretive about it when he told me, but it doesn't matter really as life goes on. Remind me to race you in the dirt with my DL1000 if you ever swing by Salmon Arm in the future...kidding of course

 

[deuce]

imported post

imported post

BMWNut wrote:

deuce wrote:

Looks like the only way BMW can figure out how to lower prices is to put in crappy Chinese motors.

Crap can come from anywhere Deuce. What matters is design, materials, and quality control. If these remain the same as they have for the past 15 years then the engines will still be bullet proof. As no one has actually used these motors yet there is no way to tell.

You're use of the adjective "crappy" is completely uncalledas no one has tried these motors yet,and indicates that you just have an axe to grind. Get over yourself.

Many high tech productscome out of China now, IBM laptops, Apple computers,their space program, etc. Does anyone remember when "Made in Japan" meant "cheap crap"? Now you're holding out "Made in Japan" as a blessing of quality and value. Well the same thing is happening in China now, just at a much faster pacethan it happened in Japan. Am I saying the engines will be perfect? I can't tell at this time, nor can you.

If you can't bring yourself to buy an Asian manufactured product then there are German and Italian made bikes...

There was a speaker in Victoria this week talking about the Chinese economy etc. He said a part manufactured in Ohio that costs $42 US, $39 Can , to make costsonly $1 to make in China. He also cited that China graduated more engineers this year than the entire english speaking world combined.

People aren't stupid Deuce. Given an option they don't continue to buy products that don't work for them. BMW-Motorrad Canada has increased sales approx. 70% over the last 5 years alone, while some of the Japanese companies have lost market share lately, Honda and Yamaha I believe.I'm talkingreal people spending real money not "nameless internet sources" having "issues", 'causemoney talks andBS walks.

Are there BMW bikes out there that break done? Yes. Does every brand have machines that break done? Yes. Does BMW have the best warranty in the world? Yes. Could they afford to back their bikes up this way if they "exploded" all the time? No, that's a ridiculous proposition.

In the stories quoted the "people" had trouble getting warranty. Why? What dealer in their right mind turns down warranty work that walks in the door? Your manufacturer is always your best customer, and they always pay on time. There is only one reason I can think ofnot toperform warranty work, and that is in the case of abuse. I'm not saying that's what happened here but that's the only thing that comes to mind.

I applogise to anyone I might have offended in my rant.

End of rant. :TTT:

OK. Good rant. About a 7 maybe. Your bias as a BMW salesman is a little obvious. :ted:I have owned 9 BMW's in the last 15 yrs so I actually do know what I am talking about. Sometimes That is why I don't own one now :dr:



How about I delete the word 'Crappy' and just say Chinese built? You know, like those high quality Lifan and XRage motorcycles that everyone and their dog is flogging. Sorry to say but most buyers will be basing their purchase of the Chinese engined BMW's on the 'quality' and past experience with these engines. The bikes coming out of China (not Taiwan) are notoriously unreliable even though they are based on Japanese technology (Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha etc) and quality control.

BMW is looking for ways to lower their prices and still sell bikes. All the more power to them. The demographic of their buyers is only getting older and older and the younger purchasers can not afford their product. I still cannot see someone willing to spend $10g's for a BMW dirtbike with a Chinese engine. BMW owners and purchasers are a fickle lot. Just go to a BMW rally once and you will see what I mean.

We have some Chinese engineers where I work. They are very 'book smart' but don't know one end of a wrench from the other.:hr:

John Valk is charging double the labour rate to work on imported American market BMW's. How's that for customer service?? :tup:

The BMW warranty is only as good as the dealer who fights for you, theowner,to get it honoured. Luckily for customers here on the Island they have a good dealer to support that service. BMW ownersin other cities are not so lucky.

No offense taken :hb:

 

[SubMann]

imported post

imported post

You all whine about BMW prices and then you whine when they try to reduce costs by trying to put a quality factory in China.

And listening to you, you already say the BMW quality is crap. So why complain about Chinese?

f***, support the Japanese then.

 

[deuce]

imported post

imported post

SubMann wrote:

You all whine about BMW prices and then you whine when they try to reduce costs by trying to put a quality factory in China.

And listening to you, you already say the BMW quality is crap. So why complain about Chinese?

f***, support the Japanese then.

I'll complain about anything We live in B.C. which stands for Bitch and Complain.

I do support the Japanese. I ride a 30 yr old Suzuki GS850. Just did a 5000km, 23 day ride through Idaho and Montana with no problems.

BMW quality is not crap. It is about the same it has always been for the last 50yrs. Just newer technology breaking down. Just that other manufacturers are surpassing them now. Even the Italians

Lighten up there Subby, can't accept some constuctive critizism.

 

[SubMann]

imported post

imported post

deuce wrote:

SubMann wrote:

You all whine about BMW prices and then you whine when they try to reduce costs by trying to put a quality factory in China.

And listening to you, you already say the BMW quality is crap. So why complain about Chinese?

f***, support the Japanese then.

I'll complain about anything We live in B.C. which stands for Bitch and Complain.

I do support the Japanese. I ride a 30 yr old Suzuki GS850. Just did a 5000km, 23 day ride through Idaho and Montana with no problems.

BMW quality is not crap. It is about the same it has always been for the last 50yrs. Just newer technology breaking down. Just that other manufacturers are surpassing them now. Even the Italians

Lighten up there Subby, can't accept some constuctive critizism.

I like CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. I didn't see any here.

I can't stand whiners, sorry:hb: