Long Time Road Rider Thinking of Dual Sport Riding

B

bradr

Veni vidi velcro
Hello everyone,

I'm a long time road rider thinking of trying out some dual sport riding. I normally go on longer 2-up trips with my wife but I've been considering doing some dual-sport riding and looking forward to it all. Our touring trips mostly are paved but we've had to navigate some FSR, sand and pebblely (I'm not even sure what its called) sections in the past.

I'm really looking for rides that end with some camping, or a good location to have lunch or go for a walk. Not looking to ride during the pandemic or cause any strain on the system so this is all pretty forward thinking at this time as we could be in this state for a while.

Prior to COVID-19 I was looking into places / courses on dual sport riding to learn something new as well as maybe connect with others that are looking to do the same thing. Now that these plans might be all paused until 2021, I figure that its a good chance to do a lot of research into all of it.

I've been mostly thinking of the CRF250 Rally due to the range and cheap insurance, but the KLX230 and DRZ400S were also on my list.

I don't currently have any real off-road experience on a motorcycle, but I'm not looking to hit speed records but enjoy the destination as well as the ride to get there.

Hope everyone is doing well,
Brad
 
tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
I started my foray into the dual sport thing over 20 years ago now, I was a long time road riders spending most of my time touring on various Goldwings. Did a little gravel road riding with the Goldwing ie Duffy Lake when it was all gravel, some short sections of FSR in Washington and Oregon. Then I thought I would like to do a little more Off Pavement Riding, so I went and purchased a 92 DR650 (this thing was a kick start)

It changed my whole outlook on what motorcycling could be, I never looked back. I still have street bikes (Triumph 955i Tiger and Sprint ST) but they rarely get used. I spend most of my time on my dual sport bikes and not much else.

The only thing I would recommend is you pick a small and light first bike, regardless of how much street experience you have. Very little of your street riding skills will cross over to off road. Funny thing though is that a lot of the skills you will learn off road will transfer to street riding. Remember if you buy a small bike under 300cc, they are very easy to sell and you will lose no money on what will be a great investment in you riding experience.

Welcome to the world of dualsportbc

Tom
 
B

bradr

Veni vidi velcro
Thanks!

I'm actually looking at a 250 as my first choice, and I completely expect to be a noob at this:) I'm really at the state of you don't know what you don't know at this time. With the covid crisis I've been reading and trying to learn what I can until we can get to the point where we can start going out and stuff again.

What I'm really trying to figure out at the moment is
  • What are the key things that I need to do this
  • What protective gear that I use on the street can be used for the dirt and what do I need to get
  • Where do people find good locations to go to
 
filterx

filterx

Member
I rode the Loose Screw last year with a dude who had just bought a 250 Rally and his first time off road.

He said he liked it for riding on the street and IMO rode it amazingly well on the easy route we did.

Anything 400 and less is the same insurance cost and as suggested, starting with a 250 then moving up to a larger bike.

What you choose to wear when you ride on the street is one thing BUT if you are riding it off road, once you have a helmet, buy the best boots you can afford then body protection, then clothes.

Error on the side of caution and if you live in the lower main land, PM when you have a bike and I can show you the FSR's etc around Squamish if you want.
 
B

bradr

Veni vidi velcro
filterx said:
I rode the Loose Screw last year with a dude who had just bought a 250 Rally and his first time off road.

He said he liked it for riding on the street and IMO rode it amazingly well on the easy route we did.
Click to expand...
I have a street bike already, what I'm really looking for is something to get me from my home to the FSR without needing to get a trailer etc... As long as its suitable enough to go from home to trail and back again I'll be happy.

filterx said:
Anything 400 and less is the same insurance cost and as suggested, starting with a 250 then moving up to a larger bike.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize this, one of the reasons that I was thinking of the CRF250 rally over the DRZ400S is around insurance cost. With the DRZ400S and CRF250 being around the same weight I might need to look at that option again. I've heard that the CRF still feels lighter than the DRZ, but its hard to tell how much easier it is not having any experience with either or the dirt.

filterx said:
What you choose to wear when you ride on the street is one thing BUT if you are riding it off road, once you have a helmet, buy the best boots you can afford then body protection, then clothes.
Click to expand...

I have another post on the gear under "Gear in the forum" but I'm already considering the Tech7 with an enduro sole, but I'm confused about the need for knee braces vs knee guards. If I'm riding FSRs do I really need to invest in knee braces? I've got knee guards and older Fox Titan chest armor from a while ago.

filterx said:
Error on the side of caution and if you live in the lower main land, PM when you have a bike and I can show you the FSR's etc around Squamish if you want.
Click to expand...

I agree with the side of caution, I'm not getting younger and broke my shoulder a few years ago just playing some pick up ice hockey. Anything to minimize risk of injury I'm all for. But it can be hard sometimes to identify what the real risks are when you are new to the sport or activity.

I really appreciate the offer for checking out some of the FSRs around Squamish, I really appreciate it! First thing is to figure out CRF250 Rally vs DRZ400S, then actually picking one up once the whole COVID stay at home orders are over.

Thanks!
 
lagbc

lagbc

Active member
As mentioned before 250-400cc is same insurance class.

If you are looking for 250, I would suggest looking at Yamaha WR250R it will be a superior bike in all ways compared to CRF250L (Rally) or DRZ400S.

CRF250L is not a bad bike, but it's heavy and doesn't have great suspension. It's Ok, but nothing spectacular. Rally will have more plastic to break, if you want to ride woods - less plastic is better :)
DRZ400S is great bike for dualsport - cheap and simple, but let's be real it's 20 years old technology at this point with almost no changes and it's carbureted (if you don't mind that).

If you want a modern low maintenance bike I would seriously look at WR250R, if you want a high maintenance light dual sport (trail leaning bike) that is lots of fun look at KTM EXC-F 350.
 
gt750

gt750

Member
I've been riding motorcycles for about 40 years now. (what?!?) 95% of that has been on road.used to road race. I had a 1983 RM125 from 1987 til 1990. Went out alone maybe 10 or 15 times. Then had only street bikes until a used 1990 Yamaha DT200R came onto Kijiji in 2003. I rode it very sparingly, until 2017. I wanted to decide whether to just keep it as a Museum piece, or actually use it in the way it was intended. I then got involved in the Dual Sport Forum. I went on a few rides and began to love the freedom of off road and gravel road riding. There were not Police hiding around corners with radar, not so many inattentive "Cagers", either. Off road, I was governed not by Man's Law, but the Law of Physics! My passion for riding was reignited. I had resigned myself to tame/sane riding on road, but this dual sport riding was a bit looser. Granted, I didn't go crazy, but I felt freer riding on under used gravel roads, FSR's, decommissioned FSR, two track and single tracks. After two seasons I bought a 2007 Suzuki DL650 V Strom. I use that for ADV riding and the DT200R for more off road riding. My 2006 Goldwing never even got taken on a trip last year! Though I'm hesitant to sell it.
I started out with lower priced well proven models to ride. My V Strom was purchased for $3000.00 with new Heidenau K60 Scout tires front and rear, skid plate, engine guards, center stand and trunk. It 90% as comfy as the 'Wing. I'm having a lot of fun on both motorcycles.
My suggestion would be for the Suzuki DRZ400S. It has suspension that is close to the Yamaha WR250's, a more flexible engine, that can tolerate hwy. use a lot better. For off road, it'll keep up with a WR, as well. A carburetor is a plus to me. It is well proven, has tons of aftermarket support and the engine is a jewel. Once you really get "into it" you will probably find that one bike is not enough anyways. There is such varied riding in the dual sport or dual purpose Camp that two bikes will be a minimum. You'll start to hear talk of the "Unicorn", the one bike that can do it all. So far, it doesn't seem to have been invented, yet!
I'd also say knee braces are not required. A minimum, to start, is helmet, MX Boots, and gloves. After, get the Fox Titan shirt and knee braces. If you want, spend $75.00 to $100.00 on a set of knee guards. Most of the spills are at a lower speed and a lot of those are even just tip overs, while below 10 mph!
Get a bike, minimum gear and go ride. Don't get caught up in the "upgrade" Wars. Some people insist that you need a full exhaust system, spare set of rims, $2000.00 knee braces, etc., before they can leave the house! I hope you buy a bike and get out there and have fun. Ride to your own pace. Hope to see you "out there"!
 
B

bradr

Veni vidi velcro
Ack, more options :)

Thanks for the note on the WR250R, it does seem to be the most expensive option which is one of the reasons why it was not high on my list earlier as well as looking like there are not as many used options for it. With all things with motorcycles, its sometimes hard to tell what is good enough vs the best.

The KTM EXC-F 350 is out of my list simply because of the price.

Carbs don't really worry me too much, but I would prefer fuel injection because I do feel that it would be better for the environment. I've reworked carbs in a 70's XT250 as well as Honda Lawnmowers in the past. FI is for sure more convenient.

After looking into the CRF250 Rally a little more, it seems to have the lowest weight limit and Honda notes a maximum luggage capacity of 10lbs. This is honestly more of a concern for me than the performance difference as it makes me wonder if I could encounter issues if I am riding with a set of saddlebags as one of the things that I would like to do is be able to take this camping.

From what I see there isn't too much of a difference between the DRZ400 and the WR250R, so it will likely come down to price and what I can get them for.

In terms of protective gear, its likely just the knee brace / neck brace question that I need to figure out. I've already decided on some protective boots (Somewhere in the A stars Tech line, with an lugged sole) and I have fox knee guards and a fox titan shirt (although old) from other activities already.

Thanks for everyone's patience, explanations and opinions, it really helps.
 
lagbc

lagbc

Active member
All of these bikes will be able to handle luggage (extra luggage racks might be required for panniers), because they are designed for two passengers, so 10lb might be a recommendation of rear rack luggage (?!), not paniers. There are people who have done around the world with luggage so not an issue.

Again if it's WR250R vs DRZ400S - I would recommend trying both out. Depending on where you live there might be a good size community who's members are more than willing to let you drive their bike to see the difference.

I have a DRZ and EXC (recent upgrade) and my wife has CRF250L, EXC is certainly much superior - lighter and well built stock, but DRZ is not a bad bike at all, but as I said it's old technology and also there is reason for it's price - stock suspension is far from ideal and it would be nice to have FI especially when going to places with higher altitude (Colorado, Utah).


Again trying WR and DRZ should give you good idea which one you like better. Apparently suspension on WR is good + FI, but it probably doesn't have the same torque as 400.
 
B

bradr

Veni vidi velcro
The CRF250L rally owners manual that I download said no passengers and 10lb luggage limit which is where my concern came from. I wonder if its different in the Canadian market or bike then.
 
ejfranz

ejfranz

Member
A stock WR250r is too called geared, even for road riding. Change the back sprocket to at lest a 46. I went with a 48 and then a 50, but also had a 12, 13 and 14 for the front. 12-50 will allow you to ride almost very thing at McNutt (except the red diamond trail) without having to slip the clutch and 14-50 allows for decent HWY riding; though 14- 48 is better for HWY.
 
S

Shuswap

Member
bradr said:
Ack, more options :)

snipped.......

From what I see there isn't too much of a difference between the DRZ400 and the WR250R, so it will likely come down to price and what I can get them for.
Click to expand...
Not much of a weight difference between the 2 bikes (maybe 10-12 pounds) the DRZ will offer a lot more mid range pulling power(which I like!) and insurance costs are identical. I've doubled up on the DRZ and it was only good in an urgent situation, the 250 would be no better. Lots of DRZ around, lots of reasonable accessories, reliable and would be my first choice again.
 
S

Sikorsky

New member
I’ve picked up a WR250R this past January. Absolutely love it! About 1000 km and 21 hrs on it so far.

It will do a GPS’d 100 km per hr easily on the flats. Going over the Salmo Summit 90 km per hr was still easily done.

I’ve done a bunch of mods so far but left the gearing stock, I just couldn’t toss out a perfectly fine set of sprockets and chain. Hydro lines, 45 deg slopes of baby heads .... no issues so far with power or gearing.

The lack of grunt hasn’t been an issue. Gnarly, bumpy tree root covered trails and no bumped “whiskey throttle” into the rhubarb because it just doesn’t have the snort to do so. With my old XR650R I would still be trying to get the bike back to the trail!

And the lightness ...... just wonderful. Climbing those steep baby heads or putting the wrong foot down (to the low side) trail side ..... haven’t dropped it yet.

BTW ..... it’s tall. I’m 6 ft and have no issues with it though. Lowered seats and lowering links are available.
 
ejfranz

ejfranz

Member
Sikorsky, the cheapest way to get better performance out of the WR250r is to change the the sprockets. With 12-48 gearing I have had it up to 120 kmph gps. You can not over rev the bike. It wants to be in the higher rpm range.
With 13-50 gearing it will still pull 70 mph gps. I also bought the Speedo healer as I changed sprocket on it for different riding conditions.
 
lagbc

lagbc

Active member
Not an expert on WR's but I think it's recommended to go 14 in front and larger in rear, as stock 13 or smaller can lead to swing arm damage.

Yamaha ships the WR with a 13-tooth sprocket in the front and 43 in the rear for a gear ratio that’s about 3.3. That leaves the gearing a little too tall when it comes to steep grades, and it gives the chain enough slack that it can actually begin wearing into the swingarm when the suspension is compressed enough. Both issues are fixed by changing sprockets. We switched to a 14-tooth sprocket up front and a 49 tooth in the rear which gave us a 3.5 gear ratio.

Source: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/rm-rider-exchange/top-5-yamaha-wr250r-adventure-mods/
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1588919753369.png
 
ejfranz

ejfranz

Member
14 is the largest that fits, 13 is stock. 12 is fine if you have proper chain slack. 38000 km on mine with no swing arm damage. Maybe if you ran a 12 with the stock 43 rear this could happen. I have always had a 48 or 50 on the rear.
 
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