Restricted Use Motorcycles (RUM)

[bajaman]

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spc wrote:

bajaman wrote:

and the DOT guys on the site..being DS guys should be tiring to help us and not tow the government line....And before I get any hate mail...I am not attacking spc or fartypants...to me it just comes down to some common sense.

:woohoo:

I have been warning,on this site, about this issue for several years. Check out thecomments I have made over the years about RUMs. I posted the link to this bulletin the same day it was issued. I thought I was helping. Apparently not.

You wonder about my common sense?Over the years I have seen the difficultly of getting dirt bikes licenced and the games that some people have gone through to get licenced. My common sense tells me that if it was legal it would not be so difficult.

No not your common sense...it was not a personal attack....but with you guys riding with other guys from DSBC..you must see the rum bikes all the time.All I was trying to state in my redneck way is that in your position..you might want to help us guys with the rum bikes.The common sence thing is.. come on...these rum bikes are no more safer or unsafe than the un rum bikes.I realize that the law is the law...but guys like me don't want to ride KLR...now I will of the KLR guys...AND thank you for posting the DOT stuff....and yes it does me off...



:hb:



Ride Rummed or stay home.:woohoo:

 

[tomcycle]

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spc wrote:

Over the years I have seen the difficultly of getting dirt bikes licenced and the games that some people have gone through to get licenced. My common sense tells me that if it was legal it would not be so difficult.

I will have to take you to task on the difficulties of registering a RUM bike in the past. I have done a couple of them. Once I found a list of what the vehicle inspection facilities were going to be looking for, I just did what was requested and then with the right paperwork the bike got registered and insured.

Now I was following all the rules, I was not playing any games ortrying to fool anyone. I honestly thought and still think I have a street legal bike.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think there is something lurking in the shadows here:shock:Why the sudden interest in RUM when for the last 25+ years nothing? Cant be saftey because if that was the case they would allow me to ride at all:wi:

Now I understand many people use to take the NIVS formtoICBC and register, insure their bike without any of the modifications that the BC inspection requires. Thats skirting the rules and it makes sense to put a stop to that.

Hopefully the manufactures will bringmore of the now RUMbikes as MOTORCYCLES like KTM has. Then this whole thing will go away.

spc your doing us all a favour with your information, you and fartypants are the whipping board for someone we don't even know how to contact. I appreciate you input

T

 

[bajaman]

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tomcycle wrote:

spc wrote:
whipping board for someone we don't even know how to contact.

Ya...who is that guy.....??????:shoot:



Ride Rummed or stay home.:woohoo:

 

[Island Hopper]

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This whole issue could have something to do with this:http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Province+wants+rein+road+yahoos/2066824/story.html

 

[bajaman]

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Island Hopper wrote:

This whole issue could have something to do with this:http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Province+wants+rein+road+yahoos/2066824/story.html

Can't seem to open the story...:mad3:



Ride Rummed or stay home.:woohoo:

 

[c337b]

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Province wants to rein in off-road yahoos


Tourism minister Kevin Krueger says government has had enough of those who run roughshod over wild public lands

By Larry Pynn, Vancouver SunOctober 4, 2009


The province is close to adopting regulations that would help rein in off-road vehicle "yahoos" who thoughtlessly run roughshod over wild public lands at the expense of the environment.

"There is an appetite in our government to make some changes," Kevin Krueger, B.C.'s minister of tourism, culture and the arts, said in an interview Friday. "We are just trying to settle on the right place. We're not completely there yet."

Krueger said a package of initiatives under strong consideration include mandatory registration and display of a "highly visible plate" that can help to identify those "small percentage of riders" who consider destruction of the environment all in a day's fun.

"Every now and then there'll be a riparian [streamside] zone where people have chosen to mud-bog in with their machines and rip it up," he said.

"We have to be able to identify those just being yahoos."

Also under consideration are education and training provisions for new riders, a requirement for safety helmets when riding on public lands, and allowing enthusiasts to cross highways to access riding areas without obtaining special permits. The regulations could pass before spring 2010.

Krueger noted that more well-heeled baby boomers are legitimately turning to all-terrain vehicles known as quads to explore the wild as their "knees and hips start to trouble them." Groups such as ranchers and mineral exploration firms also use them as part of their businesses.

Recreation groups around B.C. are strongly supportive of Victoria tackling the problem.

Tasha Sargent, stewardship planner for the broad-based Coalition for Licensing and Registration of Off Road Vehicles, said "we are holding the government accountable" and hope that in the coming years the government can adopt even stronger regulatory measures.

A coalition report in December 2005 also recommended that money raised from mandatory registration be put in a trust fund for education and safety programs, trail development including maintenance and enhancement, enforcement, and conservation and stewardship.

The coalition also wants a clear list of infractions in legislation, adequate fines, and effective compliance and enforcement.

B.C. is known as the Wild West of off-road motorized recreation, the only jurisdiction in North America that does not have legislation for the use of off-road vehicles on public lands.

Dave Quinn, program manager with the East Kootenay environmental group Wildsight, said he's in "total support" of the long-overdue regulatory changes.

He said off-road enthusiasts are aggressively "muscling their way" into wild areas, even to the point of building their own illegal trail systems.

He pointed to the risks of erosion, noxious weed spread, and wildlife disturbance from unregulated off-road vehicles, adding a small percentage of offenders "must face some consequences for their destructive activities on public land."

Quinn said the province should also put up better signs and maps showing where off-road vehicles are allowed, and to become involved in building and maintaining trails.


Complaints have been raised around the province about unrestricted use of off-road vehicles, including in areas originally intended for non-motorized recreation such as the Kettle Valley rail route through southern B.C. and the Alexander Mackenzie trail through the Cariboo-Chilcotin.

Last March, outdoor recreation groups criticized a $25-million federal commitment to "multi-purpose" recreational trail development in Canada.

Leon Lebrun, vice-president and southwest regional director for Trails BC, said multi-purpose trails are a proven failure and ultimately end in motorized off-road enthusiasts pushing out non-motorized enthusiasts who are seeking a tranquil experience with nature.

"There is a perception if we create multi-use trails, somehow that will solve everything, satisfy everyone. Unfortunately, it doesn't. It's not a win-win situation."

Jeremy McCall, executive director of the Outdoor Recreation Council of B.C., representing motorized and non-motorized groups, agreed trails must be developed to separate motorized from non-motorized enthusiasts for the benefit of both.

[email protected]

 

[3stroke]

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Some grist for the mill. I have a 2005 Honda TRX 450 R in my shop and the DOT sticker reads " Mfd. by honda of america mfg. inc. this vehicle conforms to all applicable standards prescribed under the canadian motor vehicle safety regulations in effect on the date of manufacture." Repeat in french.....3stroke

 

[old trials guy]

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3stroke wrote:

Some grist for the mill. I have a 2005 Honda TRX 450 R in my shop and the DOT sticker reads " Mfd. by honda of america mfg. inc. this vehicle conforms to all applicable standards prescribed under the canadian motor vehicle safety regulations in effect on the date of manufacture." Repeat in french.....3stroke

CMVSS regulations pertain to all types of motor vehicles from electric bicycles toheavy transport trucks and yes your TRX complies but with the standard established for all terrain vehicles not as any type ofstreet legal vehicle.

All motor vehicles are supposed to have a compliance label on them but the label reads different types or status, eg MC, RUM. If themotorcycle qualifies for a MC compliance label it gets a plate without question. In the past if it didn't bear the MC compliance label the provincialdepartment decided if itpassed an inspection they wouldgrant a plate. They have changed their mind.The question remains, what if you already have a plate?????

otg

 

[cactusreid]

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old trials guy wrote:

The question remains, what if you already have a plate?????

otg

THIS QUESTION NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED-clearly and with no if's,ands or but's!

FARTYPANTS to the speakerphone please!

 

[joker650]

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bajaman wrote:

and the DOT guys on the site..being DS guys should be tiring to help us and not tow the government line....And before I get any hate mail...I am not attacking spc or fartypants...to me it just comes down to some common sense.

:woohoo:

I have been warning,on this site, about this issue for several years. Check out thecomments I have made over the years about RUMs. I posted the link to this bulletin the same day it was issued. I thought I was helping. Apparently not.

You wonder about my common sense?Over the years I have seen the difficultly of getting dirt bikes licenced and the games that some people have gone through to get licenced. My common sense tells me that if it was legal it would not be so difficult.

SPC is a GREAT guy :ted:

He's a Govt employee, hedoesn't make the rules but is just letting us know what is in the works.

I think it's good to have him on OUR side :tup:

 

[bajaman]

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joker650 wrote:

bajaman wrote:

and the DOT guys on the site..being DS guys should be tiring to help us and not tow the government line....And before I get any hate mail...I am not attacking spc or fartypants...to me it just comes down to some common sense.

:woohoo:

I have been warning,on this site, about this issue for several years. Check out thecomments I have made over the years about RUMs. I posted the link to this bulletin the same day it was issued. I thought I was helping. Apparently not.

You wonder about my common sense?Over the years I have seen the difficultly of getting dirt bikes licenced and the games that some people have gone through to get licenced. My common sense tells me that if it was legal it would not be so difficult.

SPC is a GREAT guy :ted:

He's a Govt employee, hedoesn't make the rules but is just letting us know what is in the works.

I think it's good to have him on OUR side :tup:

This is a place where I don't want to go....I am NOT making any thing about the RUM bike thing personal to anyone on this site...I would love to sit down with spc and have a BS and :cf2:....What I disagree with is the up laws we are getting rammed down our throats...I havemyopinion about the Rum thing and other people have there views...we do live in a free country ....the last time I checked.So in closing



I AM NOT MAKING THIS PERSONAL....



THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME I WILL BE MAKING ANY MORE OPINIONS ON THE RUM MC ISSUE.



THE END


Ride Rummed or stay home.:woohoo:

 

[2Trider]

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I'm thinking I'll need to find a "legal" KTM EXC frame add the 3002T motor along with the goodies and go...this way the VIN code matches to what the gov wants

It is all a game

full of corruption:hb:

Seems this works well in Cali for green stickers for the lonely 2T

 

[fartypants]

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cactusreid wrote:

old trials guy wrote:

The question remains, what if you already have a plate?????

otg

THIS QUESTION NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED-clearly and with no if's,ands or but's!

FARTYPANTS to the speakerphone please!

Ok, I'll do my best.

The Bulletin was sent out internally, to inspection facilities and was posted on our website. It was not sent out to enforcement agencies nor was it ever intended to be.

I can't speak for ICBC only to say that new bikes will no longer be registered. I am unaware of any plans to call you up and tell you your insurance is now void.

If stopped at the roadside and given a N&O to have an inspection completed, it's all over as it can not pass the inspection (and was never supposed to).

In a nutshell, all RUM's have a sticker on them that states something to the effect of " This vehicle was designed for off-road use only and does not comply with local on-highway laws" or something to that effect (My Yamaha has slightly different wording than my Honda). The addition of lights, tire and mirrors does not make it comply (otherwise it would be available from the factory if it was that easy). It has not been tested for fuel system integrity, noise emissions, exhaust emissions, braking compliance etc.

This is not a new rule, it is a clarification of the original intent.

Are there different rules for a UBILT? Absolutely, we are stuck with what is written and the intent behind it. So get out your chromoly ort aluminum and weld yourself up a frame, pass a provincial inspection and Bob's your uncle. Most people lack the $$$ or the knowhow to do this so there are not that many out there in the grand scheme of things. You should see some of the ubilts out there.

You ask why we did this?? Someone asked the question if this paractice was legal.

For the record, there are currently 6 bikes in my stable. 3 Rums, 2 closed course competition only bikes and 1 MC. I came on this site after talking to spc and being somewhat new to the Kamloopsarea (2 years) I was looking for areas to ride. As well spc and a few other work counterparts here have DS's and there were trying to get me into one so I thought I'd check it out. I think this is a great site.

Also for the record, my official job description is Senior Area Vehicle Inspector. I must be a ticketed mechanic to hold this position among other things.

I would be open to meeting with someone from this board for a chat over coffee if you think that would help, as long as it's not 30 of you somewhere down a dead end road.

 

[old trials guy]

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fartypants wrote:

I would be open to meeting with someone from this board for a chat over coffee if you think that would help, as long as it's not 30 of you somewhere down a dead end road.

Thank you for your candid response and the information.

Although its not good news for many motorcyclists in BC it helps clarify therules so we can move forward.

otg

 

[Guest]

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From: A P [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2009 2:54 PM
To: Kangas, Brian TRAN:EX
Subject: Bulletin #5 - 2009


Dear Mr. Kangas,


there is an on going discussionon the dualsportbc.com community forums regarding the recently implemented Bulletin #5 - 2009. There is a lot of confusion about this bulletin & no one can really understand the exact purpose of the document. Would you be so kind as to take five minutes & skim through the discussion & reply with your thoughts? I would then post your input to the forum& hopefully clear the matter once & for all.


Respectfully,


Arthur Pappas


RE: Bulletin #5 - 2009‏
From:Kangas, Brian TRAN:EX ([email protected])
Sent: October 13, 2009 10:21:37 AM
To: A P ([email protected])

Mr. Pappas,



Thank you for taking the time to note this issue. I have been following this forum group from time to time. I will address your concern, however, I am not prepared to enter into an on-line debate regarding Motor Vehicle Act Regulations. I commend my colleagues, SPC and Fartypants, for their participation and informed incite within this particular discussion. To answer your question, the purpose of this bulletin is to clearly address the Provincial inspection program requirements. These requirements are not new and these expectations are not a result of any new legislation. There were numerous liability concerns raised with the inspection and ‘on road’ use of ‘off highway’ vehicles. The bulletin addresses these liabilities in line with regulatory inspection obligations. Without going into infinite detail and causing anymore confusion, that is the clearest answer I can offer.



The bulletin is addressed to ‘Designated Inspection Facilities and Authorized Inspectors’. It is not an enforcement information document and does not offer specific instructions to road enforcement personnel.



I hope this offers some clarity.



Regards,

Brian Kangas
Program Coordinator, Vehicle Safety & Standards
CVSE

 

[klrroo]

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Sooooo...it sounds like if you have a currently plated RUM, and don't get pulled over for inspection you should be okay..... for the time being.

 

[North]

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Don't kid yourself, this is just the first step to remove all RUM bikes off the road.
:gaah:


" I commend my colleagues, SPC and Fartypants, for their participation and informed incite within this particular discussion."



I can't help but question the judgement of a person who admits to having a colleague named "Fartypants". :hr:


All joking aside, with some of the crap coming into the Province from Asia. That could be made street legal with a Baja kit, etc. I can see the need to close this door. (But than you have unbuilts.)

It would be nice to have a Provincial Inspection process, at a reasonal cost that would allow road worthy RUM Bikes on the road.

 

[franhoser]

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like someone else said. drive like a whiteman on the road and when you get on the trail go nuts. don't give them a reason to pull you over.

 

[tomcycle]

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I would also like to thank spc and Fartypants for their input on this subject:clap:we may disagree on some items but nothing wrong with that:XMost importantly is the open lines of communication so we all can get the real information. I also remain convinced that the DSBC crowd is some of the best out there, all you guys provided some very interesting points of view and information.

As for now, I will continue to fly under the radar. I got more important things to do than explain myself to on officer, we can leave that for the younger riders:mb:

Tom

 

[spc]

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I posted a link to this bulletin on another forum for dual sport bikes and this is a reply that was posted.[/i]

I'm not going to cry too hard about this one. There are already too many @ss clowns running around Vancouver with no turn signals, non-DOT tires and taped on plates. I even got passed by a guy last week with no headlight, yet somehow he had plates and insurance.
[/i]
If this is what our fellow bikers think of us what do non-bikers think of us? :?