Restricted Use Motorcycles (RUM)

[vexorg]

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The way I see it, we now have 4 alternatives:

1) Convert a RUM to a MC - now shown to no longer be possible
2) Stop riding - yeah right
3) Buy a brand new dualsport with the MC sticker - can be pricy and the selection is somewhat limited
4) Look into ubuilt's - how do they do it? What is the process for approval? Is it possible to use the approach the chopper builders use for dualsports?

Rather than complaining about the situation, we need to find a way around it. Is there another way that I haven't thought of?

I'll keep riding my bike as long as I can, but after that I would like to learn about #4, and then failing that I would grudgingly go with #3.

 

[bajaman]

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fartypants wrote:

tattz wrote:

I am curious I have an 02 ktm 520 and every single part has a dot stamp on it the rims are stamped dot the brake lines stamped dot calipers hubs even the factory front tire was dot ...so now that being said i also bought my bike in the states got the riv sheet did the inspection and walked into the insurance company and insured it so I guess not to argu the point with fancypants but i can say every one of those x on the sheet i can actually say yes my bike has so where does that leave my bike if i get pulled over and a cop sends me to get it inspected ?.....

How can you prove that your bike meets the Fuel System Integrity??

Fuel System Integrity??...WHAT...these "RUM" bikes are meant to jump,ride at 100 miles per hour though the desert...I would have to say there is nothing wrong with Fuel System Integrity or anything else with these "RUM" bikes.I do realize that you DOT types must follow the party line...BUT whatis needed is some REAL common sense...we are already regulated to death in our day to day lives..:mad3:...whats next...MUST ride wrapped in bubble wrap?????or do you already have too and don't know it???

 

[bajaman]

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vexorg wrote:

The way I see it, we now have 4 alternatives:

1) Convert a RUM to a MC - now shown to no longer be possible
2) Stop riding - yeah right
3) Buy a brand new dualsport with the MC sticker - can be pricy and the selection is somewhat limited
4) Look into ubuilt's - how do they do it? What is the process for approval? Is it possible to use the approach the chopper builders use for dualsports?

Rather than complaining about the situation, we need to find a way around it. Is there another way that I haven't thought of?

I'll keep riding my bike as long as I can, but after that I would like to learn about #4, and then failing that I would grudgingly go with #3.

You missed #5......Revolution.:tup:

 

[old trials guy]

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As I see it:

1) The government bureaucrats will do what is expedient as long as no minister tells them otherwise. Which means, unless there is significant political pressure (and we are NOT a big enough voice to create that political pressure) its a done deal. Seldom do you see government backtracking so don't expect it here unless you can prove a legal case in court which will just result in the bureacrats writing a memo that will stand up in court.

2) Thenext question is.....will they relent and "grandfather" existing plated vehicles as those bikes qualified under the laws as they existed when the bikes were plated. Much like you don't have to make your 49 Ford meet today's crash standards. This would seem fair as the precedent has been established to "grandfather" vehicles deemed complaint when registered. If we can do anything we should push for this as I think it is attainable and there is good precedents in place.

3)Encouragedistributors and manufacturers to stop taking the easy pathpast Transport Canada using the RUM get out of jail free card and pay the extra dollars to achieve compliance when the bike is imported. If KTM and others can do so it is not impossible and there is now a better than ever business case for doing so. If you don't, you won't sell as many bikes, if you do, you will sell more bikes. Makes business sense to me. Complianceprocesses have changed over the years with more industry inputand it may be easier than some people think to achieve MC status.

I for one would be prepared to pay a slightly higher price to buy a street legal dirt bike. I just wish there were more choices. This is the direction the world is headed in so why bury our heads in the sand and hope the world won't change on our behalf.

The problem is solved when manufacturers and distributors figure it out and produce and import bikes suitable to our sport rather than force us to go through loop-holes. Maybe the way to insure this happens is to support those products that are legal and that have done due diligence and the others will be forced into doing so as well or get out of the game.

In short, I think the war is already lost on DS'ing dirt bikes. We should work hard to establish the grandfathering of existing plated bikes and encourage manufacturers and importers to make compliant, state of the art dual sport bikes or make their great enduro bikes street compliant to begin with.

My 50 cents worth..

otg

 

[snackdaddy]

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fartypants wrote:

tattz wrote:

I am curious I have an 02 ktm 520 and every single part has a dot stamp on it the rims are stamped dot the brake lines stamped dot calipers hubs even the factory front tire was dot ...so now that being said i also bought my bike in the states got the riv sheet did the inspection and walked into the insurance company and insured it so I guess not to argu the point with fancypants but i can say every one of those x on the sheet i can actually say yes my bike has so where does that leave my bike if i get pulled over and a cop sends me to get it inspected ?.....

How can you prove that your bike meets the Fuel System Integrity??We

Two responses to that....



If it is a drz400e (a rum bike) I would point out the fact that the tank is the same part number as on the drz400s a MC bike.

I could also add a fuel tank from a bike that is considered a MC bike.

 

[Randaroo]

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OTG has a good point in there, #3.

A buisneess oportunity exists for dealerships to have a kit and compliance package for the bikes that can be easily converted. Horn, lights, cute stick on reflecters, plate holder, hot-line to the MV branch, a sticker to replace the regi status of the bike. All for the lowlow price of...

Themanufacturer/dealer reps association could lobby to gain that ability in thier network? Are they that motivated , have they done it in other places, etc.

 

[kaos]

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vexorg wrote:

The way I see it, we now have 4 alternatives:

1) Convert a RUM to a MC - now shown to no longer be possible
2) Stop riding - yeah right
3) Buy a brand new dualsport with the MC sticker - can be pricy and the selection is somewhat limited
4) Look into ubuilt's - how do they do it? What is the process for approval? Is it possible to use the approach the chopper builders use for dualsports?

Rather than complaining about the situation, we need to find a way around it. Is there another way that I haven't thought of?

I'll keep riding my bike as long as I can, but after that I would like to learn about #4, and then failing that I would grudgingly go with #3.

ubuilds need recipts for the parts they are made from,and then testing to see thay comply with the rules .where you have too tread carefully is the recipt total can have a bearing on the value of the finished bike when it comes to an insured value.i do know the ''big bear'' choppers were imported as a rolling chassis with a seperate motor and ''built'' here .obviously they have a large purchace price for the parts.how low a figure you can get away with(for tax purposes upon reg)) and not raise red flags on a dualsport type bike remains to be seen

 

[zokalr13]

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ive dug deeper for info and its the llllllllll lawyers fault...seems thata few crashes and lawyers fighting ICBC have found grounds for decerning RUMS as "IFFY "so transport canada-GOV workers-has been going to the various bikeshops this week and given the shop owners the whatsup in a document [which i saw this morning]..its basically the lowdown on 'cease and desist'for plated dirtbikes and theonly way out is M/C on the vin tag...the dealers are pissed because most sell asian 450s etc,that can be converted for street -but no more...hope for a solution soon :shoot:

 

[2Trider]

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Well guy's welcome to the world of liability and not wanting to be responsible.

Quebec has out right banned ALL RUM bikes......no grandfathering there...if not TC approved you lost your plate.

Ontario sent a memo out to licensing offices to not register MF (off the NIVIS) bikesas MS......but we can still sneak things through hahaha

At least if you got the plate your still good

Insurers here (Ontario)seem to assume you'll ride the road regardless of bike

Next I think the manufactures want no part in having RUM bikes on the street...might have something to do with liability. (I hears that in the grape vine)

At least thank KTM, Husky for pushing the "legal" limits of TC approval and is likely the road we will have to follow regret ably...or maybe not ( I'm waiting for aKTM300EXC streetable from the box) then in my worldit does not matter :clap:



Stupid regs by even stupider politicians/no it alls protecting us from us



All I can say is fight it the best you can

In Ontario the OFTR is pushing for offroad plated motorcycles to be given access to certain roads (as ATV's now have)

BUT given the proposal put forth we might just as well be plated for the street as previously done

http://www.oftr.ca/articles.php?id=2711&archived=1

Funny the proposal requires a working brake light.....The HTA regs do not even require this on our highways for motorcycles...but you need to use hand signals

Then a Minimum "M2" license ...but with a "M1" (beginners permit)you could ride a street legal bike on the road:?

Crazy:shoot:

Stupid

Unbelievable



So fight it please

 

[dirtrider]

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correct me if i am wrong but in Quebec and Ontario and maybe Manitoba allow you to insure and ride ATV's and Snowmobiles on streets?

I have seen plates on them.

If they do ? how is it done?

 

[zokalr13]

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AW,CMON, those provinces only get 3 months of summer weather -so cut them some slack EH??? ONT,QUE have already been thru the RUM thing -the prairie provinces are the last [after BC].... because.... just because........[nuff said]

 

[2Trider]

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dirtrider wrote:

correct me if i am wrong but in Quebec and Ontario and maybe Manitoba allow you to insure and ride ATV's and Snowmobiles on streets?

I have seen plates on them.

If they do ? how is it done?

In Ontario to legally use a offroad Motorcycle or ATV on crown land or others property it must be plated (green plate) and insured

Snowmobiles are also registered and insured and have full use of roads except kings hwy's

ATV's have use of roads only if the Municipality passes a bylaw giving them access to the road otherwise a no go

Motorcycles need the Blue plate (which is the street plate here) for road use



BC has no offroad plates nor mandatory insurance for ORV users....yet... so adding them to the road opens a bigger can of worms...be carefull of what you wish for there.

 

[icanpopawheeli]

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I noticed Fartypants has a pretty good understanding of the issue at hand, as does SPC. I'm guessing both of them ride bikes and probably ride dual sports and like to get off road.

This being said, and knowing that anyone could simply create a new ID, isn't there some useful advice that an anonymous new person could provide that would allow law abiding, safety concious, dirt seeking riders to benefit from? DSBC is about folks that want to ride plated bikes everyday and that also perform well offroad.

With the law there is always the spirit of the law, and the letter of it. The letter of it is what we are debating today, yet it doesn't seem 100% clear as to why it was changed and the way they intend to change it. There is alot of confusion as to UBuilt as well.

 

[tattz]

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fartypants wrote:

tattz wrote:

I am curious I have an 02 ktm 520 and every single part has a dot stamp on it the rims are stamped dot the brake lines stamped dot calipers hubs even the factory front tire was dot ...so now that being said i also bought my bike in the states got the riv sheet did the inspection and walked into the insurance company and insured it so I guess not to argu the point with fancypants but i can say every one of those x on the sheet i can actually say yes my bike has so where does that leave my bike if i get pulled over and a cop sends me to get it inspected ?.....

How can you prove that your bike meets the Fuel System Integrity??

Well the tank has a DOT stamp on it does that count ?

 

[Mad Max]

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My riding buddy just yesterday reinsured his XR400R. No questions asked by insurance person. Our government tries to take our bikes and riding areas away from us as fast as they can. When I was a kid there were way more open areas to ridethan today .NowI am a criminal for going to the same spots as my Dad and I
wentto as a kid! Just a pileBeaurocratic B.S. How much will this crap cost us?

Ride Hard and Don't Pull Over

Max

 

[joker650]

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dirtrider wrote:

correct me if i am wrong but in Quebec and Ontario and maybe Manitoba allow you to insure and ride ATV's and Snowmobiles on streets?

I have seen plates on them.

If they do ? how is it done?

I think that is a provincial mandate of regestering your motorized vehicle.

I think it also comes with a certain amount of liability insurance.

It's also in Alberta...I think.

 

[spc]

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old trials guy wrote:

3)Encouragedistributors and manufacturers to stop taking the easy pathpast Transport Canada using the RUM get out of jail free card and pay the extra dollars to achieve compliance when the bike is imported. If KTM and others can do so it is not impossible and there is now a better than ever business case for doing so. If you don't, you won't sell as many bikes, if you do, you will sell more bikes. Makes business sense to me. Complianceprocesses have changed over the years with more industry inputand it may be easier than some people think to achieve MC status.

I for one would be prepared to pay a slightly higher price to buy a street legal dirt bike. I just wish there were more choices. This is the direction the world is headed in so why bury our heads in the sand and hope the world won't change on our behalf.

The problem is solved when manufacturers and distributors figure it out and produce and import bikes suitable to our sport rather than force us to go through loop-holes. Maybe the way to insure this happens is to support those products that are legal and that have done due diligence and the others will be forced into doing so as well or get out of the game.

I agree. This is what I have been saying on this forumfor several years.

 

[kaos]

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i think you will find most manufacturesdon't sell enough product in canada to be bothered with making them compliant.one only has to look at the admissable riv list to see theres quite a few models avalible that are sold and licenced in the states ,that theare not offered incanada.

 

[spc]

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kaos wrote:

i think you will find most manufacturesdon't sell enough product in canada to be bothered with making them compliant.one only has to look at the admissable riv list to see theres quite a few models avalible that are sold and licenced in the states ,that theare not offered incanada.

As long a people keep buying RUMs and riding them on the highway why would manufactures make the effort to make them Transport Canada compliant?

 

[redpillar]

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Mad Max wrote:

My riding buddy just yesterday reinsured his XR400R.   No questions asked by insurance person.   Our government tries to take our bikes and riding areas away from us as fast as they can.  When I was a kid there were way more open areas to ride than today .Now I am a criminal for going to the same spots as my Dad and I 
went to as a kid! Just a pile Beaurocratic B.S.  How much will this crap cost us?

Ride Hard and Don't Pull Over

Max

I am thinking that you may be able to re-insure etc, but if at some point, you were to get pulled over and a cop decided for some reason that your bike should be inspected (maybe your turn signals looked a little flaky, no mirrors etc) then you would be out of luck, no matter how long ago you registered it, because the fact that it has a rum sticker on it makes it ineligible to be inspected.