Bill 13 Off Road Vehicle Act for BC

JavaJude

Super Moderator
ST

What about being able to sit flat footed while straddling your dirt bike? I cant find it in the L&R, but its probably not a bad idea that you should at least be able to touch the ground. Like most people, it does not affect me, so I dont care, perhaps you could make the argument why I should care? Maybe someone could let me know what section of the L&R that makes the statement?


T

This affects me so I'd like to know where to find that section in the L&R.
 

offworlder

Moderator
This provision to "flat foot" an off road bike is particularly idiotic. Not only is this near impossible, due to the bike design (adequate clearance, travel, etc..) and average rider size, but COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.

You think Gaston Rahier could flat foot his bike ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_Rahier
gaston10.jpg


rahier.jpg
 

North

Active member
First they came for the Dirt Riders, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Dirt Rider.



Then they came for the ATV Riders, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a ATV Rider.



Then they came for the Rum Bike Riders, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Rum Bike Rider.


Then they came for me, a DualSport Rider--and there was no one left to speak for me.



You know, there are a few People that I know who give so much to Riding and Tom is right up at the Top of the list.

Dear Mr. Supermoto,

Tom does not need me or anyone else to speak for him, but this is just getting silly now. I have been on the this site for seven years and in that seven years I have seen Tom give so much time, sweat and money to this sport it's not funny. Your criticisms of the Man are unfounded.

I mean no offense to you and you portray a person who cares about the Sport too.

Sincerely

Rick
 
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skidmark43

Administrator / BFF in the blue jacket
First they came for the Dirt Riders, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Dirt Rider.



Then they came for the ATV Riders, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a ATV Rider.



Then they came for the Rum Bike Riders, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Rum Bike Rider.


Then they came for me, a DualSport Rider--and there was no one left to speak for me.



You know, there are a few People that I know who give so much to Riding and Tom is right up at the Top of the list.

Dear Mr. Supermoto,

Tom does not need me or anyone else to speak for him, but this is just getting silly now. I have been on the this site for seven years and in that seven years I have seen Tom give so much time, sweat and money to this sport it's not funny. Your criticisms of the Man are unfounded.

I mean no offense to you and you portray a person who cares about the Sport too.

Sincerely

Rick

Don't feed the Troll.
 
First they came for the Dirt Riders, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Dirt Rider.



Then they came for the ATV Riders, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a ATV Rider.



Then they came for the Rum Bike Riders, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Rum Bike Rider.


Then they came for me, a DualSport Rider--and there was no one left to speak for me.



You know, there are a few People that I know who give so much to Riding and Tom is right up at the Top of the list.

Dear Mr. Supermoto,

Tom does not need me or anyone else to speak for him, but this is just getting silly now. I have been on the this site for seven years and in that seven years I have seen Tom give so much time, sweat and money to this sport it's not funny. Your criticisms of the Man are unfounded.

I mean no offense to you and you portray a person who cares about the Sport too.

Sincerely

Rick

Very well put!
And I dont know the guy. I just know him from this interaction but Ill take your word on that.
 

Bora20

Administrator
According to the Minister there are around 200,000 ORVs in BC:

"ORVs are used in a variety of sectors in British Columbia, including farming, ranching, forestry, oil and gas, mining, sport, tourism, transportation and search and rescue. It's estimated that 200,000 ORVs are in use in B.C., and while snowmobiles have been registered in the province since the 1970s, we are currently one of the last provinces in Canada that does not require registration of other off-road vehicles."

Quote taken from:http://www.dailytownsman.com/breaking_news/247265681.html

Snowmobiles and boats are already registered. Why is this suck a hard pill for some to swallow? Pay your $49, move on with your day.
 

Bora20

Administrator
Do you have trouble reaching the ground with your feet when your riding your bike? Dont feel bad, I know some really good riders that cant touch the ground with both feet at the same time.

Hey, I might resemble that remark! I just lowered it an inch, still can't touch well with both feet :) Damn I am sure glad I have a plate...
 

bkoz

Member
Has anyone actually been able to find in the bill where it says that you have to be able to flat foot the bike?
 

farmerger

Member
Has anyone actually been able to find in the bill where it says that you have to be able to flat foot the bike?

Nope, cause its not there. But this fear mongering among ourselves sure isn't helping.

Division 2 — Operation of Off-Road Vehicles​
[h=4]Operation of off-road vehicles[/h]17 (1) A person must not use or operate an off-road vehicle on Crown land or prescribed private land
(a) in a careless, reckless or negligent manner that may endanger or cause injury to persons or damage to property, or
(b) in such a manner as to harass, run over, injure or kill wildlife, livestock or a domestic animal.
(2) A person must not use or operate an off-road vehicle
(a) on the tracks of an operating railway, or
(b) on private land without the consent of the owner, lessee or occupant of the private land.
(3) A person who holds a permit issued under this Act must comply with the terms, limits and conditions of the permit.
[h=4]Safety helmet[/h]18 (1) A person must not use or operate, or ride as a passenger on, an off-road vehicle on Crown land or prescribed private land if the person is not wearing an off-road vehicle safety helmet that
(a) is designated in the regulations as an approved off-road vehicle safety helmet, or
(b) meets the prescribed standards and specifications for off-road vehicle safety helmets.
(2) A person who uses or operates an off-road vehicle on Crown land or prescribed private land must not permit another person under 16 years of age to ride as a passenger on the off-road vehicle in contravention of subsection (1).
[h=4]Lighting and illumination[/h]19 A person must not use or operate an off-road vehicle on Crown land or prescribed private land from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise or at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, objects are not clearly discernible at a distance specified by regulation unless all of the following apply:
(a) the off-road vehicle carries all lamps, reflectors and other illuminating devices required by the regulations;
(b) all of the required lamps, reflectors and other illuminating devices are maintained in good working order and in accordance with any requirements specified by regulation;
(c) all of the required lamps and other illuminating devices are illuminated.
[h=4]Supervising adult[/h]20 A person 19 years of age or older must not authorize or permit another person under 16 years of age
(a) to use or operate an off-road vehicle contrary to section 17 (1) (a) or (b) or (2) (a) or (b), 18 (1) or 19, or
(b) to contravene, if the other person holds a permit issued under this Act, a term, limit or condition of the permit.


 

kenf

New member
Supervising adult

20 A person 19 years of age or older must not authorize or permit another person under 16 years of age
(a) to use or operate an off-road vehicle contrary to section 17 (1) (a) or (b) or (2) (a) or (b), 18 (1) or 19, or
(b) to contravene, if the other person holds a permit issued under this Act, a term, limit or condition of the permit.



On the subject of fear mongering, some of the earlier posts seemed to imply there would be issues with kids riding under the new rules, but from my reading, all this says is that you can't let your kid be a dumbass any more than you are allowed to be a dumbass yourself. Seems pretty reasonable to me. Kids still won't be allowed on FSR's -- but they never were, so that's not a change. I'm with Tom (and others) on this one, blown well out of proportion.

And BTW, is "Victoria Supermoto" a dude or a chick? Bitchy attitude aside, I keep reading that as "Victoria Supermodel" and can't help but think of lingerie catalogs. If you're a dude, you might want to think about a slightly manlier handle ;)

KF
 

skidmark43

Administrator / BFF in the blue jacket
And BTW, is "Victoria Supermoto" a dude or a chick? Bitchy attitude aside, I keep reading that as "Victoria Supermodel" and can't help but think of lingerie catalogs. If you're a dude, you might want to think about a slightly manlier handle ;)
KF

Yikes. Calvin is indeed a manly man & involved in (and organizer of) the manly sport of supermotard / supermoto racing. That's why the 'tard handle a few posts back wasn't the insult you might otherwise have imagined...
 

bkoz

Member
Nope, cause its not there. But this fear mongering among ourselves sure isn't helping.

Division 2 — Operation of Off-Road Vehicles​
Operation of off-road vehicles

17 (1) A person must not use or operate an off-road vehicle on Crown land or prescribed private land
(a) in a careless, reckless or negligent manner that may endanger or cause injury to persons or damage to property, or
(b) in such a manner as to harass, run over, injure or kill wildlife, livestock or a domestic animal.
(2) A person must not use or operate an off-road vehicle
(a) on the tracks of an operating railway, or
(b) on private land without the consent of the owner, lessee or occupant of the private land.
(3) A person who holds a permit issued under this Act must comply with the terms, limits and conditions of the permit.
Safety helmet

18 (1) A person must not use or operate, or ride as a passenger on, an off-road vehicle on Crown land or prescribed private land if the person is not wearing an off-road vehicle safety helmet that
(a) is designated in the regulations as an approved off-road vehicle safety helmet, or
(b) meets the prescribed standards and specifications for off-road vehicle safety helmets.
(2) A person who uses or operates an off-road vehicle on Crown land or prescribed private land must not permit another person under 16 years of age to ride as a passenger on the off-road vehicle in contravention of subsection (1).
Lighting and illumination

19 A person must not use or operate an off-road vehicle on Crown land or prescribed private land from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise or at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, objects are not clearly discernible at a distance specified by regulation unless all of the following apply:
(a) the off-road vehicle carries all lamps, reflectors and other illuminating devices required by the regulations;
(b) all of the required lamps, reflectors and other illuminating devices are maintained in good working order and in accordance with any requirements specified by regulation;
(c) all of the required lamps and other illuminating devices are illuminated.
Supervising adult

20 A person 19 years of age or older must not authorize or permit another person under 16 years of age
(a) to use or operate an off-road vehicle contrary to section 17 (1) (a) or (b) or (2) (a) or (b), 18 (1) or 19, or
(b) to contravene, if the other person holds a permit issued under this Act, a term, limit or condition of the permit.




That's what I thought. I knew the whole lighting and under 16 rumors going around were bull crap but I still could not find anything in the bill that comes close to saying that you have to be able to flat foot on the bike.

Interesting to watch people jump to conclusions on this one.
 

motogirl

New member
RUM bikes are identified by Transport Canada pretty clearly (here, if you're wondering) to include all competition motorcycles. That would include MX bikes (ie: non-street legal dirtbikes), trials bikes, "play bikes" aka trail bikes. I don't think VicSumo is at all out of line in suggesting that those motorcycles fall squarely into this legislation. The bike that I ride in hare scrambles is one of these. Hare scrambles take place on the same land that this legislation covers. I think these are questions that need to be answered. To clarify, my race bike doesn't have a headlight, isn't registered, I don't have proof of paying tax on it, etc, etc... It is exactly what this legislation is about.

As for the flat-footed thing, I actually saw that on facebook, in a discussion about this, with the pres of BCCORMA. I've since gone looking for that conversation and I actually can't find it anymore. It might have sunk to the bottom of a page, or it may have since been deleted.

I'm personally REALLY disappointed in the way BCORMA has not informed, educated, or asked it's members about this legislation. As an organization that wants to be the lobby group and the voice of off-road riders, they're sure not doing much talking or listening to the actual off-road riders. The BCORMA newsletter hasn't done anything to discuss the issue at all, and no messaging or polls have gone out to the members at all. As I said, I'm a member in good standing, but I do question what they're doing for me as an off-road rider.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
motogirl

I agree with your understanding of RUM bikes, they will fall under this legislation. Racing such as the hare scramble series, is the expertise of the PNWMA Pacific Northwest Motorcycle Association. The PNWMA works and sits on the BCORMA Board, they should be able to provide you with some sort of definitive answers.

My understanding of how this will affect the racing is,

  • You are using (racing) on crown land with trails, so you will need a registered and licenced motorcycle
  • If the race uses any FSRs you will need to carry proof of insurance (not sure if the promoters race insurance will cover you) I am also not sure how the permissions work for using sections of FSR for racing ie closing roads and insurance requirements for the event, racers.
  • You will not have to attach lights unless you intend to ride at night

As many of you racers also use your bike for recreational riding on trails and FSRs outside of an event I would think that you definitely fall under the legislation. I see no provisions under the legislation that excludes racing or racers from complying with the rules. Im not sure if trying to get an exclusion from the new R&L legislation because you are racers would be a good idea, you might find yourself and your sport in the government cross hairs and we all know thats not a good place to be.

I would expect that the PNWMA is working on this as we speak and you will see new rules for the 2015 season.

About BCORMAs involvement in R&L

This has been discussed several times, on this and other sites like quads.ca. As past president I know that BCORMA has a huge communications problem (they have no structure in place for communication) While sitting on the board we all agreed that BCORMA had to get the message out in a timely and accurate manner. BCORMA never got a communications plan together and it appears they still have not done much on that front. BCORMA is run by Club Volunteers (who are probably stretched to the limit with their own clubs activities). With lackluster support for the Volunteer Trail Pass Program, there is little money to get much done. But then if you dont have a plan and dont get out there and sell it, what would you expect?

Some years ago BCORMA and the PNWMA agreed to work together but all aspects of Racing would fall under the PNWMA Banner and Recreational riding would be BCORMAs job. The PNWMA also sits on the BCORMA Board so they are as informed as much as anyone can be with the activities of BCORMA.

My understanding is that BCORMAs Executive Director sits on the Joint Advisory Group JAG for R&L but is sworn to secrecy by a confidentiality agreement. He claims he can not make any comments because of this agreement.




Here is that confidentiality agreement

ORV Joint Advisory Group (ORV JAG)Terms of Reference


Purpose
The purpose of the Off-Road Vehicle (ORV) Joint Advisory Group is to
provide a forum for ORV stakeholder associations and the Ministry of
Tourism, Culture and the Arts (MTCA), Manager responsible for ORVs, to
meet and exchange ideas to support the effective implementation of the
ORV Management Framework.
Nature and Scope of Discussion
The ORV JAG will respectfully discuss issues of mutual interest/concern and
explore creative and practical ideas recommendations associated with the
development of policy and regulations that support the implementation of
the ORV Management Framework. there related ORV topics or issues may
be discussed from time to time.
The ORV JAG will adopt a round-table approach to discussions; each ORV
stakeholder association member wilI have an equal voice. Consensus on
issues, ideas or recommendations is welcomed by MTCA, but is not required.
Due to the confidential materials and information that will be discussed, each
ORV JAG stakeholder member will sign the attached ORV JAG Confidentiality
Agreement.
The MTCA Manager responsible for ORVs, as Chair of the ORV JAG, will be
responsible for scheduling meetings/conference calls, preparing draft
agenda's and an internal record of decision. The timing of meetings will be
subject to the progress made at the inter-ministry ORV working group. For
example, a draft policy requires internal government review and comment
prior to sharing with stakeholders.
Membership
ORV JAG stakeholder members will consist of ORV stakeholder associations
that are registered in BC under the Society Act and generally have a
province-wide membership. Each association will appoint two members that
have the mandate to represent the interests of their association. The two
members will consist of a primary association representative and their
alternate.


In cases where a sector does not have an established association in BC, such
as the ORV dealers, the members of the ORV JAG will develop a fair and
transparent process to appoint individuals not affiliated with an association,
whose role will be to provide subject area expertise. The number of
unaffiliated individuals will be limited to ensure the group does not become
too large and, consequently, ineffective.
Government is represented by the MTCA Manager responsible for ORVs, who
is the Chair and approves the membership of the ORV JAG. MTCA will be
responsible for inviting other government representatives whose primary
role will be to provide subject area expertise or updates.
Prior to becoming members of the ORV JAG, individuals must self-identify if
they are employed by the province of BC to ensure there is no inadvertent
conflict of interest. BC Public Service employees are subject to the Standards
of Conduct policy.
Participation in the ORV JAG is voluntary and is not funded by government.








OFF-ROAD VEHICLE JOINT ADVISORY GROUP (ORV JAG)
CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT
1. This Confidentiality Agreement is dated for reference, this day of
2. In return for the government of British Columbia giving me access to confidential
information in the form of draft regulations, draft policy, written materials or other
correspondence for the purposes of consultation, I agree to keep confidential the
documents and information that I obtain from this access or a result of this consultation.
3. This agreement applies to draft regulations, written materials or correspondence, and
information related to any of those documents, unless government gives a copy of a
particular draft, briefing material or correspondence to representatives of a
non-governmental organization without requiring the representatives to sign a
confidentiality agreement, in which case this agreement does not apply to the working of
that particular draft, briefing material or correspondence, but does continue to apply to
other information that I obtain through the process of consultation.
4. Nothing in this agreement prevents me from disclosing confidential information or a
confidential document:
(a) to a person who has executed an ORV JAG confidentiality agreement,
(b) to a person if I have the prior written consent of Vera Vukelich, Manager
responsible for Off-Road Vehicles, Ministry of Tourism, Culture and the Arts
CMTCA)or Peter Waiters, Assistant Deputy Minister, MTCA.
(c) if the disclosure is required by law, or
(d) if the information has first been made public by government.
5. If confidential information or a confidential document is made public by someone other
than me, I may discuss the information or document that has been made public with any
person as long as I do not, in that discussion, disclose any confidential information or
document that has not already been made public.


Signed and delivered by
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
motorgirl

After my long response i missed your question, I think you only have to worry if you bike was brought in as a "Competition" or "Closed Course" only bike. It should be identified on your compliance decal on the steering head. Of course I have not read the entire legislation but I don't recall seeing anything about these types of bikes.

Hopefully your bike has a RUM designation decal and you will be good to go

T
 
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