Bill 13 Off Road Vehicle Act for BC

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
I have questions. Do people get paid to sit on these Government Committees? Are there expense accounts? Is it all public record? Do they get nothing? What makes a person an expert? Does anyone know?

No as far as I was informed, no one get paid by the government to sit on these Joint Advisory Groups, cant say anything for Committees.

With that said, BCORMAs Executive Director, is paid by BCORMA and therefore gets paid to sit on this advisory group. Paid by money collected from Trail Passes and the COHV grant (which is money you and I put in through the purchase of new dirt bikes). This may also be true with others on the JAG. (this is looking like a thinly veiled innuendo).

What makes and expert? Just ask one and they will tell you.

Tom

I missed a question.

The BCORMA ED does get an expense account and it should be available to any of the directors of BCORMA. Unfortunately DSBC does not have an appointed director on the BCORMA board so you will have to ask nicely for that information. I can tell you that while I was president the expense reports were as limited as one could put together and always several months behind. I don't think getting them would be of much use. Just the same the BCORMA bods requested the the Executive Director attend these meeting and as such he should be paid for that time. (The BCORMA Executive Director is not a Volunteer)
 

North

Active member
Thanks Tom.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone being paid for their time. I guess if there was more openness, questions would already be answered.

Rick
 

North

Active member
I know I must be reading too much into this. Below is an email from Ken M President of BCORMA. He is answering some of Vic Sumos questions by email regarding the new licensing and registration Legislation.

I know this is a bit out of context but it got me to thinking

From Ken M BCORMA
July 17 2014


I can only wonder where this is coming from? DSBC's has had the most active forum on the new legislation (this thread), and been asking for real answers from BCORMA for some time.

I certainly hope he is not referring to the DSBC site and its members and contributors to our forum. (I like to think of myself as a contributor)

Tom

I must say that I am not happy that this Gentleman would reply to you with those words. Being a Member of this site for going on seven years I personal know of all the work, time and money you have put into this Sport and the creditability that you have.

There is nothing wrong with asking a question. And asking the source shows the exact opposite of Mr. Ken M's reply. Whenever I hear rumors or second hand information, I go to the source to try to get the truth.

Sincerely

Rick
 

offworlder

Moderator
OK, this is total BS:

From Ken M BCORMA
July 17 2014

Obviously you have bought into the sleazy innuendo floating around on the forums out there, posted by one or two mis-informed conspiracy theorists, that we threw riders under the bus, and that riding as we know it is over, blah blah blah etc. etc.


Having not kept its (BCORMA's) members informed - or provide any info for that matter, and then lashing out at them is completely unacceptable.
Without clear info as to how BCORMA has acted in our interests on this matter, I must say, its time to reconsider supporting/recognizing BCORMA. There is simply no justifiable reason to remain silent for so long on such a critical issue.
 
So maybe Obviously you have bought into the sleazy innuendo floating around on the forums out there, posted by one or two mis-informed conspiracy theorists, that we threw riders under the bus, and that riding as we know it is over, blah blah blah etc. etc. actually holds some trouth.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
So you guys dont take these quotes out of context here is the complete discussion between Calvin (VicMoto) and Ken M (BCORMA)

Also I am adding BCORMAs Mission Statement for reference (just in case we/they have forgotten why we started this

The BCORMA (British Columbia Off-Road Motorcycle Association) protects and advances the off-road motorcyclist’s interests and rights, through representation to Provincial and Local governments, its agencies, and International agencies.




I (Calvin( sent BCORMA a direct email and here it is:Sent July,16 2014


Hello,
I am sending you a direct email given that finding answers seems to be a kin to proving if big foot is real or not. I have a large interest both personal and financial in this new bill that is being pushed through. I have been following it and reading what is being put together and it is all becoming quite concerning. There seems to be some confusion on what’s actually going on. After doing some digging it is quite clearly cloak and dagger crap. So BCORMA is supposedly representing off-road riders. Who are these riders? I have never heard of you, spoken to a rep or anything so can you explain this? Who is deciding on the safety aspects of the bill? What are their credentials? Who appointed BCORMA to the position it’s in or is it a self-appointed thing? I have spoken to almost every shop with in my area and no one has any idea who you guys are. Being the representatives for off- road riders, how does this happen? Going over the bill that has been drawn up and BCORMA has been directly involved in producing there are an avalanche of concerns. Such as Competition use only bikes no longer being allowed to be ridden in the bush, speed limits, safety officers, impounds, flat footing a bike, age issues, lighting, signals, paying fees to BCORMA, impounding bikes, plating bikes, BCORMA’S relationship with ICBC, Where funds are going, How are funds being actually used, is the board self appointed or is it a voted on thing and much more. This entire escapade has been quite hush hush. Nothing has ever been announced by BCORMA (not in your news letters, not on Facebook or your website - why is this? Being the voice of something you should use it and keep your “members” informed. I understand that hundreds of thousands of dollars from both taxpayers and riders are being put together but I don’t see any financials on any of it why is this? I am not just speaking for one person I am speaking for a majority wanting to know what is going on.
Calvin

I got a reply today:On Jul 17, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Ken McClelland wrote:


Hi Calvin, my name is Ken McClelland, I am the President of BCORMA. BCORMA is a Federation of 20+ off-road motorcycle clubs from all corners of the Province including Vancouver Island. These clubs are the Stewards of about 30+ legal trail networks/riding areas. You’ve probably ridden on these managed networks without realizing it, as I’m going to assume, based on the number of mistaken assumptions that you make in your letter, and that you fail to even tell us where you’re from, that you are not a member of any BCORMA-affiliated club. I have also been the President of the Greater Kamloops Motorcycle Association for a number of years (10ish), and was land-use co-ordinator with the GKMA for several years prior to that.

I received a copy of your letter to Peter Sprague regarding ORV Legislation. This is a process that has been in the works since 1971, but more seriously since about 2003, I believe. I have been involved with it since about 2004, maybe earlier. The strong push for ORV legislation came out of concerns expressed by non-motorized groups i.e. BC Cattlemen’s, Nature BC, Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society (CPAWS) and the Grasslands Conservation Council (GCC) based here in Kamloops, that there was a lot of irresponsible riding taking place. Riparian areas were being ridden in (mud-bogging), livestock was being chased, fences were being cut, and there was some pretty graphic and embarrassing video footage to go along with the claims. These by-and-large non motorized groups were interested in having some legislative controls, rules and regulations around the use of ORV’s. Truthfully, they probably would have preferred an outright ban on their use on Crown land, however that was not a realistic option. ATV/BC initially, then myself as a member of the off-road motorcycle community, and BC Snowmobile Federation were eventually invited to participate in the discussion. This activity pre-dated BCORMA by several years. As motorized off-roaders, our primary interest was to keep trail networks and access to Crown land open, and demonstrate to non-motorized user-groups that the bulk of off-roaders use responsible riding practices, and that we are working on educating the small percentage of red-neck riders out there that just don’t care about other users, or what anybody else thinks.

Fast forward ten years to 2013-14. ORV legislation is now a reality, however registration is not yet required, likely in 2015. In that time, BCORMA has become a reality, and Executive Director Peter Sprague and myself have actively participated in the provincial Joint Advisory Group (JAG) on ORV Legislation. We were, and are, bound by a confidentiality agreement. Early in the JAG process, ATV/BC’s rep was removed from the JAG because he allegedly sent an email with info he should not have disclosed. Perhaps an overreaction by the government manager in charge of the process, but the rest of us took it as more or less a warning shot across our bow. Better to effect and monitor change from within than be forced to accept the final product after having had no say in the matter.

Peter and I, and indeed all of BCORMA’s individual and club members, have fought hard on rider’s behalf, and made some good strides to change the originally proposed legislation. We haven’t gotten everything we wanted, that is why it is called negotiation, but we view the legislation and proposed safety rules and regulations as pretty palatable and common-sense. Obviously you have bought into the sleazy innuendo floating around on the forums out there, posted by one or two mis-informed conspiracy theorists, that we threw riders under the bus, and that riding as we know it is over, blah blah blah etc. etc. It isn’t. IRRESPONSIBLE riding as we/you know it is. If you ride responsibly, your machine meets a suggested 96dB or less sound requirement, and have regard for other user groups, you have nothing to fear. The registration fee is modest ($48 one-time), the safety regs proposed such as a helmet law, being able to touch the ground with both feet (not flat-foot, toes/balls of feet), and lighting (portable is ok, i.e. helmet light or arm-band light) are just common-sense.

Frankly, I found most of the “facts” in your note were based on misinformation and rumours (if you haven’t heard a good one lately, start one), and your accusations against BCORMA and its leadership, and the implication of a sweetheart deal between us and ICBC offensive. We are recognized by government as the representatives for off-road motorcyclists in the Province, are a democratically elected group elected by our membership, are a registered non-profit with by-laws, a constitution and all that other official stuff, and frankly have nothing to apologize for or dis-ingenuous conduct to defend. I’m actually surprised you “and almost every shop in your area” have never heard of us, because we have certainly never done anything to disguise ourselves. I would encourage you to become a member of an affiliated club, file your Section 56 and 57 applications with government, get your trail networks recognized and legalized, and have an active role in the promotion and preservation of our sport. That is what BCORMA-affiliated clubs have done. We all love to ride, but not everybody loves us, and there are more of them than there are of us, so we need to actively participate in any discussion around over-regulating or banning our sport in all areas of the province. With all due respect, that is exactly what we have been doing.

Sincerely,
Ken McClelland
President
BCORMA
Kamloops BC



So I replied:


Hello,
I am not sure why my location is relevant but over all I am looking for answers not back handed comments. The simple thing is I have questions that are valid there were and are no accusations you speak of. Sorry if you feel that way but no there are not. I can actually guarantee that I have not ridden any of the trails. I came to you guys to answer the questions that are floating around and I am waiting still. You have answered a few of them and most of the questions come from the bill its self.
You state that :We are recognized by government as the representatives for off-road motorcyclists in the Province, My self and many others don’t see it like that sorry but we don’t you are the voice for a select collection of people not all Off road riders of B.C.
If i ride responsibly by who’s guide? I am asking who decides what is and what is not responsible riding?
If you ride responsibly, your machine meets a suggested 96dB or less sound requirement, and have regard for other user groups, you have nothing to fear. The registration fee is modest ($48 one-time), the safety regs proposed such as a helmet law, being able to touch the ground with both feet (not flat-foot, toes/balls of feet) and lighting (portable is ok, i.e. helmet light or arm-band light) are just common-sense. Can you tell me who’s idea this was?


Most if not all motocross bikes do not allow people to touch with both feet what do you expect these people to do sell their bikes and get smaller ones?






Thanks for your reply
Calvin




And now I wait for answers or just more angry answers

Hi Calvin, I’m not going to get into a war of words here, especially from behind a keyboard. From the standpoint of BCORMA, legislation and safety regulations were and are inevitable. I, and I speak for BCORMA, make no apologies for that. With the amount of shared use in all areas of the province exclusivity is no longer an option for most user groups. There is also always somebody standing around with an iPhone ready to post an embarrassing video to youTube. I would just as soon that irresponsible riding practices are not on those videos. I should not have to give you chapter and verse on what is or is not responsible/ riding. You obviously have a fair amount of knowledge, but let’s just say that common sense should prevail, and perhaps agree that riding through wetlands, flowery alpine meadows or making a new trail across a ranchers range lease is not responsible riding, and the rest I’ll leave up to you to decide. We have done a great deal of work to maintain, and indeed enhance your riding experience on legal, maintained and managed trails. I know there are many unmanaged and un-official trail networks scattered around. If you want to adopt a “catch me if you can” philosophy, that is up to you. Registration and riding in legal and managed areas comes with a few strings attached, but again, I do not apologize for that, as the alternative (not having legal trails/riding areas at all) is unpalatable. Maybe you think I we threw you under the bus. We don’t see it that way. In the real world, not much is going to change. Yes, you’ll be expected to register, yes, you’ll be expected to adhere to some minimal safety requirements, but truthfully, it is stuff that most people are doing already. Most people wear helmets and other protective gear when they ride, they ride appropriately sized/powered machines, and they don’t ride after dark unless they have a light. Thanks for your interest,
Ken McClelland

Ken,No war of words here I assure you I just want answers. So to start What are the parameters of safe operation and riding responsibly. If I can get impounded I want to know. As you stated you put this together so you are the one who should have the answers to hand out so people know what is and is not acceptable. You said and I quote “Frankly, I found most of the “facts” in your note were based on misinformation and rumours (if you haven’t heard a good one lately, start one) and Obviously you have bought into the sleazy innuendo floating around on the forums out there, posted by one or two mis-informed conspiracy theorists, that we threw riders under the bus, and that riding as we know it is over, blah blah blah etc. etc. You have NOTHING on this issue on your site that I can find no details just its coming. here is an opportunity to set the record strait.


Your riding buddy
Calvin

Response:

There has been quite a bit of consultation with stakeholders on this legislation, and there are a lot of stakeholders. I have attached our original recommendations to government from 2005 here for reference purposes, the stakeholders are listed. Nothing happened with this until fall 2009, when the intent to move ahead with legislation was announced here in Kamloops, then nothing more for a while until late 2011 maybe? A little fuzzy on dates. Not much of the 47 recommendations ended up in the final product, unfortunately, but that cuts both ways as non-motorized didn’t get a lot of what they wanted either, The current government is not much on unnecessary rules, bureaucracy, red tape, etc., and it shows in this legislation as it is fairly bare bones. One big disappointment is no Trails Trust Fund, which was a key point for all parties in the original recommendations, but the idea of a fund similar to a Trails Trust has been floated lately.

I am still bound by that confidentiality agreement that I mentioned earlier, however I can say this: The actual legislation as originally presented has been modified significantly in motorized favour. The original proposal was not very palatable, we let them know that, and they listened. We will now have the ability to legally cross FSR’s for instance, which we did not have before, just one example. The proposed rules and regs were presented as a matrix i.e. “This is what we have now, this is what we’re thinking of doing, what do you think? We got them away from the flat-foot idea, the permanently affixed lighting idea, and a few other things. Pediatricians wanted no riding under age 14. Period. Original plan was for a full-sized m/c licence plate (non-motorized pushed hard for that for ID purposes), we pushed hard for a decal mounted on back of fork tube, will likely end up as a smaller plate mounted on front number plate. We all know what that looks like after 200 m in wet conditions... Not great, but safer, and less readily read by the ultra greens that hate us. I’ll admit that we haven’t gotten everything we wanted, but we sure haven’t rolled over on anything either, and non-motorized hasn’t gotten a whole lot of what they wanted either. I hate to say “trust me, it’ll be fine”, but a lot of the rumours you’re hearing out there simply are not true. Yes, you’ll have to register, no, your closed-course comp bike will not be prohibited, I have that direct from the government manager on this. Kids under 16 will have to be supervised (it’s going to be a pretty loose supervision rule, I think, and again, think of the practicalities of enforcement), helmet law, some form of visible lighting (visible from 100 meters) front and rear from ½ after sunset until ½ hour before sunrise, touch the ground with toes/balls of feet, encouragement (not hard and fast rule) to use age and size appropriate machines. Let’s face it, most 12 year olds shouldn’t be on a 450... You can read the legislation (Bill 13) on the government website, and the lead manager on this file is Vera Vukelich, [email protected]. One key for government is coming up with a budget for Compliance and Enforcement (C & E). This has been tasked to the Conservation Officer Service, and they are pretty stretched as it is with poachers, and fish and game issues, so we’ll see how that goes. At $48 registration, there won’t be much of a budget for C & E. We’ll have to take a wait and see on that.

Ken McClelland
BCORMA


Ken,Thanks for the reply. Its interesting that your faced with a gag order given that it’s the public that will be making the deceptions for a large portion of the public. A question has come up around legally riding in BC. Will it under the coming in legislation be necesaary to purchase a BCORMA trail pass to be able to legally ride off road in BC? or can you ride legally with out purchasing of a trail pass to BCORMA? In regards to the 48.00 fro who does that go to and what is the break down? Can you offer clarification on this :use age and size appropriate machines.
Is BCORMA a not for profit or a private entity? Is insurance a mandatory thing and if so who will be handling it?


Thanks
Calvin
 

North

Active member
Mr. McClelland is awful defensive and not very amiable. What is a Rider to think?

Do Bike Dealers, shops, etc, belong to an organization. If they do, are they involved in this process?

There is no way to 100% stop the morons who make us look bad off-road, any more then Policing stops all the idiots on the paved roads. So, I have to wonder where this is all going. But I guess that is a secret too.
 
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KTM-Bryon

Member
Lets try to get along!

Lets try to get along!

It doesn't do any good to shoot the messenger, especially if the it's our messenger. Now is a good time for everyone to pull together and BCORMA is our gov't recognized association.

The best way to get answers is to read bill 13.

http://www.leg.bc.ca/40th2nd/1st_read/gov13-1.htm


My summary of the bill would be registration, underage riders supervision, and enforcement has arrived for off road bikes. However it does not apply to DS bikes that are registered and displaying their licence plate while off road.

What is not clear is what section 17-3 will entail. It states you must comply with the terms, limits, and conditions of your permit. Those terms & limits can probably be changed as required without bringing in new legislation.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
It doesn't do any good to shoot the messenger, especially if the it's our messenger. Now is a good time for everyone to pull together and BCORMA is our gov't recognized association.

The best way to get answers is to read bill 13.

http://www.leg.bc.ca/40th2nd/1st_read/gov13-1.htm


My summary of the bill would be registration, underage riders supervision, and enforcement has arrived for off road bikes. However it does not apply to DS bikes that are registered and displaying their licence plate while off road.

What is not clear is what section 17-3 will entail. It states you must comply with the terms, limits, and conditions of your permit. Those terms & limits can probably be changed as required without bringing in new legislation.


Bryon

He is not just a messenger,

he sat on the Joint Advisory Group for Licensing and Registration and was involved in this long before the appointment of that group. This JAG advised the government on the drafting of this legislation. He would like you to think he is just a messenger and hide behind the confidentiality agreement he signed with the government.

BCORMA has not said or posted word one about Bill 13, now you just want all off road riders to follow blindly a group that is lucky to represent 3 percent of the riders out there?

There are a lot of questions that need answering, our government recognized association (BCORMA) is doing a less than adequate job of getting the message out (whatever that message might be).

Go to the BCORMA site www.bcorma.ca and see what you can find on BCORMA and Bill 13? Forget it I will save you the time, nothing.

Many of us have read Bill 13 and now have some questions, and are looking to BCORMA for some answers. Only thing is we are getting is ambiguous answers.

If I were on the BCORMA board (which I am not) I would recommend that they create a page and provide everyone (not just BCORMA members) a question and answer page and start answering the questions. I am sure some of the questions will be difficult (IE did anyone get paid to participate on the JAG?) but should be answered.


I recommend everyone read Bill 13 several times, particularly Part 4 — Compliance and Enforcement


Tom
 

ron

Senior Member
I think Part 5 of the Bill will be an unknown for a while. The future regulations which are authorized by the Bill will become part of the law.


I'm sure no one knows what this extract from Part 5 means:

(iii) circumstances in which the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia may refuse to register an off-road vehicle under this Act or to replace or transfer a certificate of registration under this Act, including, without limitation, if any amount owing in respect of an off-road vehicle under the Consumption Tax Rebate and Transition Act, section 165 (2), 212.1 or 218.1 or Division IV.1 of Part IX of the Excise Tax Act(Canada) or the Provincial Sales Tax Act is not paid to the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia;


Does it mean ICBC wants back taxes or taxes from future transfers of off road vehicles? I imagine PST will apply to all future private sales. These and other items of the Bill will likely be clarified by the Part 5 regulations. It will likey take a little while to have the regulations drafted and passed. I don't know if they will be available in draft form ahead of time.

Ron
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
I sent this email out to BCORMA, ATVBC and the government rep heading the JAG for registration and licensing

If someone here has an answer for me that would be good too

While thinking about the future of our sport of off road motorcycle riding and Bill 13, I started thinking about how Bill 13 is going to affect our newest and future OHV riders.


If kids must have a registered, and licenced ORV, we are going to have some real problems with families who want to take their kids out for a ride. To date I generally see how the legislation is going to affect adults. There are complaints from parents, about how much more money they are going to have to put out to keep their kids "legal".


Now I agree that kids without drivers licenses or insurance should be kept off of Forest Service Roads. Who really thinks a kid on a 100 lbs bike should be sharing the road with a 120,000 lbs logging truck?


But why should a kid (under 16 years) have to ride a registered and licenced OHV, on trails and appropriately sized machine? We don't see kids, mud bogging, tearing up grasslands, running loud pipes or chasing animals. Their smaller machines are just not capable of doing these kinds of behaviour.


Has anyone considered to advise the government, or the JAG for registration and licensing, that child sized off road vehicles should be exempt from the registration and licensing process? As an example, ORV's, under 80cc's should not require registration or licensing, but require kids to take a course on proper operation and conduct while operating an ORV.


I have not thought this through completely, and there may be problems that I have not thought about, but this would keep small kids on what could be considered appropriately sized machines for quite some time. This also would not put an additional burdens on families with young children who would like to get outside and ride.


Perhaps all this has already been covered?
Could you advise


Regards
 

offworlder

Moderator
Re the above communique - thanks much to Calvin for sharing, and Tom for posting.

Ken's (BCORMA) comments are insightful, and would have significantly eased the tension around this issue if they would have been shared publicly. IMHO, this and regular updates around this (and other) issue(s) are a bare minimum requirement with regards to serving (read: informing) its (BCORMA's) members.
 

Shuswap

Member
Not sure how KM can state that he represents the majority of the m/c community when very few have heard of him or his efforts.

I also have to say that he has no one but himself and his fellow panelists to blame for the rumor-mill; In the absence of information "sleazy innuendo" will flourish.....surely our 'leaders' could see that coming?

Thanks to Calvin and Tom for providing useful info where the responsible parties have failed to do so.
 
So just to clarify a few things Tom and I are not at each other what so ever. The problems we are facing as a community are the lack of information being released. Clarification on the points of the bill, Where the current BCORMA club gets off saying they are our voice, what "safe riding" is under the act. Remember I have not gotten any actual answers just a lot of redirection and finger pointing. Not to mention more questions. It has not been an easy road to go down given the holy-er than thow attitude I get from BCORMA "just trust us" is a party line used through out history right before everything goes to pot. I have yet to get an answer to my email with questions in it. Full strength Chaff?
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
175 posts and all I see here are dogs chasing their tails!!:f::f::f::f:

You are absolutely right, what our/everyones problem is, there is no one providing accurate timely information. It is obvious that I am disappointed with total lack of effort on behalf of BCORMA. No information on their website, slow and questionable responses by email, generally a poor job by what I thought would be the leader in making this work. I can only question where BCORMAs Trail Pass Dollars have been spent without any kind of report back to its member clubs.

At least its nice weather and we still can go riding


TT
 
We should remember that BCCORMA is the Voice of The off road rider in BC. They Represent every one who rides off road in the eyes of the current government, Revenue Canada and ICBC. Now for claiming to be a voice of everyone on this forum and many many other forums like this one with the powers to help dictate how you (the person reading this) and many many other people participate in this sport they are very silent on asking our opinions, asking for our input or giving out any information on this situation. To me it seems that BCCORMA is nothing more than a special interest group that looks after its own and those whom pay up. I would like to be corrected if I am wrong but BCCORMA simply hands out the "trust us" line with little else explained.
 

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
July 29 2014

Just got off of a call from Vera Vukelich, very nice and well spoken and willing to talk to anyone who has concerns or questions.

Vera Vukelich
Manager responsible for Off-Road Vehicles
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations
Phone: 250 356-7040
Email: [email protected]

We agreed that getting the message out has been somewhat confusing, but her contact information has been on the site since 2009 and she tries her best to be available. The site where we should be able to get some answers is here http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/mof/orv/ I have been assured that it will be updated very soon with a question and answer section.

I was told that the members of the JAG have privileged information, but that does not preclude them from advising their membership of the concerns or recommendations that they brought to the table. In fact we agreed that it would be beneficial so that we know that our concerns are at least being asked even if we don't get an answer we know the question was asked. (are you listening BCORMA?)


What should we do now?

1 Send BCORMA an email and ask them to post, email, fax, phone or otherwise, what they provided as the provincial representative of off road motorcycle riders, to the Joint Advisory Group on OHV Registration. Be sure to let them know if you are a BCORMA Trail Pass Holder or belong to a BCORMA member Club. Be sure to advise us here at DSBC so we can update the information on this site for others to view.

2 Then if you still are not satisfied with our Provincial Federations participation with addressing your (our) concerns or questions, contact Vera directly using the information above.


In the meantime I will review the previous pages and start a Registration Questions and Answers Thread with your input. When its time I will send them to Vera for comment.

Tom
 

doc3toes

New member
been lurking. thanks to everyone who participated in trying to get some answers to the general pop. I'm on a wr450 that is plated (for now) but most of my riding partners are atv and off road bikes, so im watching closely.

1. how is it that our gov't can appoint a body such as BCORMA to represent the user group (off road riders) during the public consultation phase of this bill, and then slap them with a gag order? that doesn't constitute public consultation. this seems a lot like when they imposed HST and then had to reverse it 2 years later.

2. start taking photos now of all the public servants riding quads on the highways (trash pickers) and wearing their crappy bicycle helmets, and operating their unregistered vehicles on the highways.

3. Do horses have to be registered/plated now? I want to take some numbers down because they dont pick up their horse crap.

4. is it possible that there will be MORE crown land accessable once the bikes are registered? are we going to see more designated "motorized use" and "non-motorized use" designated areas? I would be willing to give up some areas, if that meant no persecution in others.

5. did we get a verdict on liability insurance or not? sorry if i missed that.

thx.
 
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