Bill 13 Off Road Vehicle Act for BC

skidmark43

skidmark43

Administrator / BFF in the blue jacket
skidmark43 said:
OK Greg, you've had my respect for years; now you have my attention.

Thus far this guy seemed to be a troll, but if you think he should be taken seriously, maybe we can help VicSuMo by organizing the questions...

  1. Competition use only bikes no longer being allowed to be ridden in the bush
    Answered as a 'non-issue' by authorities in post #129 above
  2. speed limits
    As the recipient of a ticket issued by a forestry officer, I can confirm that FSRs have had speed limits for several years
  3. safety officers
    Don't know what this is. anyone with some facts?
  4. impounds, impounding bikes
    Yep - just like your on-road vehicles. This sucks / is fascist.
  5. flat footing a bike
    Not sure this is true
  6. age issues
    Who has a beef with unsupervised minors riding ORVs based on the accident records of the past 10 years?
  7. lighting
    If you're out at night or using an FSR you need a headlight / taillight... same as on-road & seems logical.
  8. signals
    Not sure this is true
  9. paying fees to BCORMA
    Member clubs pay annual dues to BCORMA (nominal) to try to keep it active, and riders like us voluntarily buy trailpasses... otherwise they get a few bucks from industry (COHV/MMIC) but nothing from any government or taxbase
  10. plating bikes
    Yep - this is coming into law. We wanted decals but Victoria insists on metal plates...
  11. BCORMA’S relationship with ICBC
    There is no relationship between the two organizations.
  12. Where funds are going
    What funds? The $$ being collected under the new legislation? "BC General Revenues / Receiver General" unfortunately despite BCORMA begging to receive some...
  13. How are funds being actually used
    Almost definately not on us. Perhaps towards enforcement? Not good
  14. is the board self appointed or is it a voted on thing
    Are you referring to BCORMA? It is made up of member clubs (list provided above in post #121) - so if you are a member of one of those clubs you presumably voted on a rep to sit at the BCORMA board.
  15. and much more
Click to expand...

Please review & absorb the above before the next round...
 
joker650

joker650

Active member
OK Greg, you've had my respect for years; now you have my attention.

Thus far this guy seemed to be a troll, but if you think he should be taken seriously, maybe we can help VicSuMo by organizing the questions...
I have no idea if he is a Troll or not, I just saw a few good questions that I did not see the answers to.Maybe I will go read his other posts.
I may be the only one...but I have a hard time understanding all the laws and rules of the act, it jumps around so much from section to sub-section and back again. That's why it's sometimes easier to ask a specific question.


  1. Competition use only bikes no longer being allowed to be ridden in the bush
    Answered as a 'non-issue' by authorities in post #129 above
Awesome



  1. speed limits
    As the recipient of a ticket issued by a forestry officer, I can confirm that FSRs have had speed limits for several years
From what I understand this act does not only pertain to FSR's. What about speeds on the trails/ 2-track (impoundment is coming up on the list right?)


  1. safety officers
    Don't know what this is. anyone with some facts?
?? no idea, maybe the guys hiding in the bush watching for unsafe riders?


  1. impounds, impounding bikes
    Yep - just like your on-road vehicles. This sucks / is fascist.
This is the one that really gets me. I believe it said something like "If an official thinks someone is operating in an unsafe manner or causing damage to the terraine they can impound the ORV on the spot"
We all know how we ride in the bush, sometimes the speeds get up there(speed limits?). Maybe you turned around and hit the ditch to do it. "Hey ur destroying the ditch, Keys please"
Maybe i'm worrying too much about this one but, laws are good and can be followed, but laws can not be left up to the discretion of what an official 'thinks' is dangerous or damaging.
Just try and prevent this guy from taking your orv away from you....no matter how WRONG he might be YOU WILL END UP IN JAIL OR SHOT.



  1. flat footing a bike
    Not sure this is true
Is that what Harlie riders do? No...that's duck walking...so I still have no idea on this one.


  1. age issues
    Who has a beef with unsupervised minors riding ORVs based on the accident records of the past 10 years?
Can anyone under the age of 16 legally operate any motor vehicle....anywhere?


  1. lighting
    If you're out at night or using an FSR you need a headlight / taillight... same as on-road & seems logical
Again, this is not only for fsr's . Are lights needed for trail riding?


  1. signals
    Not sure this is true
  2. paying fees to BCORMA
    Member clubs pay annual dues to BCORMA (nominal) to try to keep it active, and riders like us voluntarily buy trailpasses... otherwise they get a few bucks from industry (COHV/MMIC) but nothing from any government or taxbase
  3. plating bikes
    Yep - this is coming into law. We wanted decals but Victoria insists on metal plates...
SO where does it get mounted, have you ever seen how long a plate stays on a "dirtbike"


  1. BCORMA’S relationship with ICBC
    There is no relationship between the two organizations.
I didn't think so


  1. Where funds are going
    What funds? The $$ being collected under the new legislation? "BC General Revenues / Receiver General" unfortunately despite BCORMA begging to receive some...
Well maybe the gov will treat this whole thing like our health care and the teachers issues and not throw any money and/or enforcement into it.


  1. How are funds being actually used
    Almost definately not on us. Perhaps towards enforcement? Not good
Retirement funds


  1. is the board self appointed or is it a voted on thing
    Are you referring to BCORMA? It is made up of member clubs (list provided above in post #121) - so if you are a member of one of those clubs you presumably voted on a rep to sit at the BCORMA board.

I have no idea what happened to the numbering of the issues:shoot:



 
V

Victoria Supermoto

New member
I have gotten an email back from BCORMA why not go to the horses mouth right?
Obviously you have bought into the sleazy innuendo floating around on the forums out there, posted by one or two mis-informed conspiracy theorists, that we threw riders under the bus, and that riding as we know it is over, blah blah blah etc. etc. It isn’t. IRRESPONSIBLE riding as we/you know it is. If you ride responsibly, your machine meets a suggested 96dB or less sound requirement, and have regard for other user groups, you have nothing to fear. The registration fee is modest ($48 one-time), the safety regs proposed such as a helmet law, being able to touch the ground with both feet (not flat-foot, toes/balls of feet), and lighting (portable is ok, i.e. helmet light or arm-band light) are just common-sense.
 
S

Shuswap

Member
Victoria SM, considering the needlessly confrontational and immature approach you've demonstrated here I'm surprised at the decorum with which you've been treated.
Lets stick to the topic, it's very important to all of us.

While it appears that BCORMA has done the community a bit of a disservice by keeping this quiet, perhaps they had little choice when dealing with a political animal such as our gov't.

Personally I fail to see the theft deterent value to the general public by registering ATVs when so little is done by law enforcement to recover KNOWN m/c or ATV thefts. My riding in the alpine has been mostly on well-worn Crowfoot Mtn and the amount of soil/vegitation damage is truly appalling. I'd say that 99% of this damage is due to ATVs chewy their way through every trail. I can see why there is a movement afoot to put a stop to this....although I have not seen damage of this scale anywhere else.

As for safety: People who would ride without a helmet will still ride without a helmet(maybe they're already 'damaged').....those that would steal an ATV will still do so.....and I'd still let my 12 YO kid ride a dirtbike, assuming I still had one! As for lighting, all my bikes have full-time headlights, it is one heck of a safety feature in my experience.

One major concern I have is delegating decision-making regarding the determination of what constitutes recklessness or qualifies for impoundment to local officers. Experience has taught me that it doesn't make much sense to have someone sitting in judgement who has little experience on the back of either an off-road motorcycle or ATV. Best example is the determination that standing while riding may be considered 'stunting'.
 
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V

Victoria Supermoto

New member
Sticks and stones. I asked nicely and got nothing I push the subject and I got answers. You and others say that you don't approve of the method but go to it when talking to me. Not to mention if I did not "act immature" as you put it this thread would have died long ago. Right now the people putting this stuff in expect all of us who ride anything on two wheels are expected to keep quiet and accept things as they go. My point was to get this topic agitated and if its at me then fine but you are all now talking about it a bit more are you not? The Subject is the bill being pushed through is a big deal but its being glossed over pretty heavily. If my being a twit oops sorry a tard (I still dont mind the name BTW) makes all of you read the bill and start to question it then fine. "Pointing it out and saying Gentlemen and Ladies it seems we have an issue here that may affect us in an unwanted way". Did not work what did was calling people out on crap and speaking my mind (well not all of it) worked. Like it or not I got you all talking
 
tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
VicSumo

To be sure I have enjoyed our little interaction back and forth. I am glad that you got a response from BCORMA.

I wonder what is meant by?
Obviously you have bought into the sleazy innuendo floating around on the forums out there, posted by one or two mis-informed conspiracy theorists, that we threw riders under the bus, and that riding as we know it is over, blah blah blah etc. etc.
Click to expand...

We have all been to the BCORMA site http://bcorma.ca/node/20 and there is not one word about the new legislation, not even a opinion or passing mention? That leaves the question as to where are dirt bikers to get information and get the right information?

I have requested that BCORMA post some kind of news release here on the DSBC site, failing that if they would post something on the BCORMA site, my request was prompted from your (VicSumo) posts. I informed them I would be glad to get it posted here for people on this site. To date nothing has happened.

So reviewing the response you got from BCORMA and I quote
"If you ride responsibly, your machine meets a suggested 96dB or less sound requirement, and have regard for other user groups, you have nothing to fear."
And you're OK with this? I have to wonder if I fall under the "responsible rider" category?

Well I for one am glad that everything is clear, we all happy and can carry on being responsible riders.

TT
 
tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Signed up

Interesting response from BCORMA President, I will follow your thread with much interest

Tom
 
North

North

Active member
I have mixed feelings about this, but in the end it's all law by Political Committees. The Government has shown in the past that it does not really care about Motorcycle Safety, but it does care about votes. It's about pleasing Political Blocks. Not doing what is right or the common sense thing to do.

If you have shorts legs now, you cannot ride a Dirt Bike on Crown land. But depending on your religion, you don't have a wear a helmet on the street or hi-way. It's all political. Just so there is any doubt, my disdain is towards the Government. As Commander Spock would say, it's not logical.
 
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tomcycle

tomcycle

Past President DSBC 2004 -2018
Staff member
Conspiracy theorist

Conspiracy theorist

I know I must be reading too much into this. Below is an email from Ken M President of BCORMA. He is answering some of Vic Sumos questions by email regarding the new licensing and registration Legislation.

I know this is a bit out of context but it got me to thinking

From Ken M BCORMA
July 17 2014
Obviously you have bought into the sleazy innuendo floating around on the forums out there, posted by one or two mis-informed conspiracy theorists, that we threw riders under the bus, and that riding as we know it is over, blah blah blah etc. etc.
Click to expand...

I can only wonder where this is coming from? DSBC's has had the most active forum on the new legislation (this thread), and been asking for real answers from BCORMA for some time.

I certainly hope he is not referring to the DSBC site and its members and contributors to our forum. (I like to think of myself as a contributor)

Tom
 
V

Victoria Supermoto

New member
There are a lot of questions and concerns brought up here and lots of other sites with no way to answer them. I tried with no luck just got a party line on it so I (for lack of a better explnataion) agitated the situation and asked questions with out pulling the punch so to say. I for one do not like the fact that BCORMA is putting it's self out as the "voice of off road riders" whey they clearly are not the voice wouldn't have a hand waiting for a membership fee to be paid. A voice shares info and talks to people with out deciding blindly what we want or what is safe or not. We are lucky in BC to have a compleate varity of terrain to ride on so what is not safe in one is in another. Being told "If you ride responsibly, your machine meets a suggested 96dB or less sound requirement, and have regard for other user groups, you have nothing to fear. The registration fee is modest ($48 one-time), the safety regs proposed such as a helmet law, being able to touch the ground with both feet (not flat-foot, toes/balls of feet) and lighting (portable is ok, i.e. helmet light or arm-band light) are just common-sense." is a wide brush to paint with why not say You can be facing impounds tickets and the like but we are not going to tell you specifically what constitutes getting impounded or ticketed. Just use common scence and pay us because we are reconised as your voice but we dont want to talk to you or hear from you or tell you whats going on just pay for a pass and you will be fine trust me.
 
r1200gsa

r1200gsa

New member
I'm surprised that you're surprised. Half of this thread is filled with flame-bait, and so is the VI thread. It's not even cleverly disguised. I must have rolled my eyes 15 times while trying to get through the info on both sites.

I get that people are passionate and want insight. I even respect it. What I don't respect, is how people are doing it. I shudder to think how much more effective this thread would be if it didn't contain all of the chaff.
 
North

North

Active member
I have questions. Do people get paid to sit on these Government Committees? Are there expense accounts? Is it all public record? Do they get nothing? What makes a person an expert? Does anyone know?
 
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V

Victoria Supermoto

New member
Tried the diet chaff no luck went with classic chaff got results. Nothing is ever cleverly disguised or you might miss it. You do know this is the internet and no one forces you to click on stuff and I don't need your respect. As with the shuttering I would recommend having a DR. look at that or check for warped roters.
 
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