cactusreid
Active member
cool idea,that will be real easy to read as well!
-
Visit DualSportBC Facebook group with over 10 000 active members: https://www.facebook.com/groups/dualsportbc
Bill 13 Off Road Vehicle Act for BC
- Thread starter tomcycle
- Start date
farmerger
Member
It does make you wonder if anyone in government ever bothers to take a step back and look at the big picture. They spend all this time and money to put together ORV registration to make ORV users more responsible for where and how they ride. Great, except those that care already do and those that don't, well don't. There will be some/lots on the fence that might have considered bucking up a few bucks to put a plate between their spokes, but instead someone in gov says hey while they are registering lets get 12% tax off them. So what do they think those fence people are going to do, say what a great deal and cough up more dough or say f@#$ that and not register at all. But now you can't be seen even at your local approved riding area because you don't have a plate. So you then go make your own trails through some nice untouched grasslands, wetlands, etc. So what was the point of the ORV legislation again??
Victoria Supermoto
New member
sounds great that BCorma finally said something after years of virtual silence. At the ICBC insurance office guy came in with a quad proof of purchase and was out the door after having to spend 250.00 so that's with papers proving he paid tax on it.
Because of BCORMA continuing Trail Pass Program, we have put $1000s of funds into off-road motorcycle trails. For 2015, we will be leading a $433,500 BCORMA Trails for Tomorrow trail works project across the BC. Vedder, Squamish, Kamloops, Revelstoke, Bear Creek, OK Falls, IOCO, Blue Mountain, to Bull Mountain at Williams Lake will be getting new and rehabilitated trails, staging areas, signage, and bridges. That's trails for your kid's kids to ride on.
Wow thanks for all the trails on the island Oh wait...
Getting stone walled by an organization president and Exec director is not a good step for an organization claiming to be speaking on peoples behalf's.
Because of BCORMA continuing Trail Pass Program, we have put $1000s of funds into off-road motorcycle trails. For 2015, we will be leading a $433,500 BCORMA Trails for Tomorrow trail works project across the BC. Vedder, Squamish, Kamloops, Revelstoke, Bear Creek, OK Falls, IOCO, Blue Mountain, to Bull Mountain at Williams Lake will be getting new and rehabilitated trails, staging areas, signage, and bridges. That's trails for your kid's kids to ride on.
Wow thanks for all the trails on the island Oh wait...
Getting stone walled by an organization president and Exec director is not a good step for an organization claiming to be speaking on peoples behalf's.
It does make you wonder if anyone in government ever bothers to take a step back and look at the big picture. They spend all this time and money to put together ORV registration to make ORV users more responsible for where and how they ride. Great, except those that care already do and those that don't, well don't. There will be some/lots on the fence that might have considered bucking up a few bucks to put a plate between their spokes, but instead someone in gov says hey while they are registering lets get 12% tax off them. So what do they think those fence people are going to do, say what a great deal and cough up more dough or say f@#$ that and not register at all. But now you can't be seen even at your local approved riding area because you don't have a plate. So you then go make your own trails through some nice untouched grasslands, wetlands, etc. So what was the point of the ORV legislation again??
I have a problem with your statement, You always owed that tax, you just did not pay it. I hate to say it, how can I feel sorry for someone that openly evaded the tax, when I had to pay it? You thought you got away with it but now you got caught.
This has been a heated discussion around my house for some time now, the requirement to pay tax on your used dirt bike has been there for years now. Just because you did not pay it when you purchased your bike does not mean you wont pay it in the future. You thought you got away with it and now your mad? You had your chance to make sure you didn't have to pay when they brought the PST back, nobody on this site complained about it then? OK you think its a tax grab and its all bull sh**t, It has been said so many time, how about a good argument?
I hate defending these guys that were on the ORV JAG, but it was brought up at virtually every (secret) meeting about the tax and how it would hinder bill 13. Only problem is there already was a law in place and they were not going to re write it because of a few dirt bikers and quaders that did not want to pay the tax. This would obviously be unfair to those that paid the tax. I for one would have lined up to get my tax back if they let you guys get away without paying.
I already know guys that have been caught making illegal trails, don't do it, its a lot more illegal than no registration, you will bring your financial and personal life to a grinding halt while the charges you will be facing are being considered.
If you have a problem with the tax you must take it up with the taxman, not the guys that created bill 13.
I am still not happy with BCORMA, although there was some interaction on Facebook but still only some rhetoric in my opinion. I have posted on the BCORMA facebook that they really have to step up and give dirt bikers some clear information and direction.
Unfortunately they are all we have as dirt bikers and Off Road Vehicle owner.
I would recommend that if you have a FB account, go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/11140817555/ or search for Dirt Biking BC - BCORMA
And post what you honestly think of the job they are doing informing the dirt bikers and Dual Sport Riders on legislation that affects us all.
You already know my opinion, so it might take a little reading then form you own opinion.
Keep in mind that DSBC has supported BCORMA since its inception (founding member) and has provided thousands of dollars to their bank account (thru membership and Trail Pass sales)
Unfortunately they are all we have as dirt bikers and Off Road Vehicle owner.
I would recommend that if you have a FB account, go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/11140817555/ or search for Dirt Biking BC - BCORMA
And post what you honestly think of the job they are doing informing the dirt bikers and Dual Sport Riders on legislation that affects us all.
You already know my opinion, so it might take a little reading then form you own opinion.
Keep in mind that DSBC has supported BCORMA since its inception (founding member) and has provided thousands of dollars to their bank account (thru membership and Trail Pass sales)
This has been a heated discussion around my house for some time now, the requirement to pay tax on your used dirt bike has been there for years now. Just because you did not pay it when you purchased your bike does not mean you wont pay it in the future. You thought you got away with it and now your mad? You had your chance to make sure you didn't have to pay when they brought the PST back, nobody on this site complained about it then? OK you think its a tax grab and its all bull sh**t, It has been said so many time, how about a good argument?
I know I am like most and am taxed on everything I buy but it's the double /triple/etc that I can't stand.. If I go into a bicycle dealer and purchase a brand new bike I pay tax I understand that and pay.. However when I sell to the next guy he doesn't pay and when he sells it onward to the next he doesn't pay.. So please tell me the logic of someone who pays 10,000 for a motorcycle pays the taxman for his new bike only to sell to the next guy 2 years later for 8000 he pays tax on same bike then 2yrs goes again he pays tax on 6000 bike and so on and so on. so by the time it's 15 years old and 7 owners later taxes have been paid over and over. That is stupid something should not be able to be taxed again and again and again. You accept this as we all bend over for the tax man
I know I am like most and am taxed on everything I buy but it's the double /triple/etc that I can't stand.. If I go into a bicycle dealer and purchase a brand new bike I pay tax I understand that and pay.. However when I sell to the next guy he doesn't pay and when he sells it onward to the next he doesn't pay.. So please tell me the logic of someone who pays 10,000 for a motorcycle pays the taxman for his new bike only to sell to the next guy 2 years later for 8000 he pays tax on same bike then 2yrs goes again he pays tax on 6000 bike and so on and so on. so by the time it's 15 years old and 7 owners later taxes have been paid over and over. That is stupid something should not be able to be taxed again and again and again. You accept this as we all bend over for the tax man
My understanding there is no restrictions of closed course off road dirt bikes
and their use on crown land. at least not at the moment. You will have to have a spark arrestor in place and I have heard but not confirmed that there may be a 96db noise limit.So dont worry about your closed course bike and registration, keep that bike and have some fun. Dont be surprised if you have a fat old guy on a street legal plated bike pass you on the trail with his turn signal flashing the whole time.
Curse
There are plenty of things that get taxed on over and over again, Cars, property come to mind, I am sure there is a lot more.
It would be nice if we got a credit for the price we sell our used motorcycle to apply against our new one, but the only way that will happen is if you sell and buy from a dealer. At least thats the way it use to work.
Again you were supposed to pay the tax when you bought your bike, new or used, it just that you didnt. The argument is with the Taxman, the majority of people out there voted for the new pst to be brought back in, but you were too mad with Gordo to understand what you were voting for and thus you're stuck with 12% tax payable, if we left the HST you would only be paying 7% pst on purchases before July 2010
We did it to ourselves, because we did not pay attention to what was going on around us.
Link to tax payable on ORV http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/notices/notice_2013-011.pdf
There are plenty of things that get taxed on over and over again, Cars, property come to mind, I am sure there is a lot more.
It would be nice if we got a credit for the price we sell our used motorcycle to apply against our new one, but the only way that will happen is if you sell and buy from a dealer. At least thats the way it use to work.
Again you were supposed to pay the tax when you bought your bike, new or used, it just that you didnt. The argument is with the Taxman, the majority of people out there voted for the new pst to be brought back in, but you were too mad with Gordo to understand what you were voting for and thus you're stuck with 12% tax payable, if we left the HST you would only be paying 7% pst on purchases before July 2010
We did it to ourselves, because we did not pay attention to what was going on around us.
Link to tax payable on ORV http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/notices/notice_2013-011.pdf
Victoria Supermoto
New member
I dont agree with the taxes on used vehicles period. At least not 12% we are taxed to death in bc already. Paying tax on something thats had the new purchase tax done on it is fine but to tax that item everytime it changes hands along with the registration fees etc is bordering on the idiotic eventually the Value of a vehicle will be paid for in tax to the guv. With the new laws brought in people that previously came to BC to ride or race will be thinking twice.
farmerger
Member
You misunderstood me Tom. I'm one of the good guys who is going to suck it up and pay the tax, but I fear I'm in the minority. Your reply does bring up a point though, I bought my non street legal dirt bikes used from private parties. I just read that since June 2010 there has been a law to say you must pay tax on these purchases, but honestly until yesterday I had NEVER seen nor heard of the fact that I should have gone to a Service BC and paid PST on those. So don't get upset at US tax dodgers when the gov failed to make it public enough that you now had to pay tax on these purchases.
I'm not even against paying sales tax on these bikes, I just don't think that the group of people that you lumped me in with are the type to go register when they are going to get dinged for registering and dinged with taxes. Its just going to end up with a bunch of non-registered bikes still running around and will give the anti ORV guys more fuel. IMHO this legislation has a good chance of failing, but that's just my opinion.
Fameger
I dont mean to lump you in with the "other" guys. Just making a point and using your post to do it.
Just the same though, just because you dont know the law does not mean it doesn't apply. Unfortunately for me my business was hit with a PST audit when the HST was brought in. I thought I was doing everything right. I was wrong and was hit with a big bill and penalties. I hate to admit it but my comments are from personal experience an experience I would prefer never to have had. This is where I learned about self assessment, the auditor treated me if I was mentally challenged for not knowing about this. Lesson learned.
The legislation wont fail, it might be changed but it won't fail. (just my gut feeling) Its a nice additional revenue stream and it satisfies the non motorized sector (for now). Virtually every other jurisdiction in North America has ORV registration. I cant remember the exact number but it the police suspected as much a 20 percent of ORV out there are stolen. That would equate to something like 40,000 stolen ORV in BC. If this is true it sounds like a problem that should be addressed.
Just look at the number of bikes posted on this site as stolen. DSBC has 56 bike listed as stolen, that's 10 percent of the active members on this site, so I dont think 20 percent is all that outrageous a claim.
Thanks for letting me use you as a bad example
Tom
I dont mean to lump you in with the "other" guys. Just making a point and using your post to do it.
Just the same though, just because you dont know the law does not mean it doesn't apply. Unfortunately for me my business was hit with a PST audit when the HST was brought in. I thought I was doing everything right. I was wrong and was hit with a big bill and penalties. I hate to admit it but my comments are from personal experience an experience I would prefer never to have had. This is where I learned about self assessment, the auditor treated me if I was mentally challenged for not knowing about this. Lesson learned.
The legislation wont fail, it might be changed but it won't fail. (just my gut feeling) Its a nice additional revenue stream and it satisfies the non motorized sector (for now). Virtually every other jurisdiction in North America has ORV registration. I cant remember the exact number but it the police suspected as much a 20 percent of ORV out there are stolen. That would equate to something like 40,000 stolen ORV in BC. If this is true it sounds like a problem that should be addressed.
Just look at the number of bikes posted on this site as stolen. DSBC has 56 bike listed as stolen, that's 10 percent of the active members on this site, so I dont think 20 percent is all that outrageous a claim.
Thanks for letting me use you as a bad example
Tom
I agree we seem to pay more than our fair share already, but heh whats a working stiff to do?
I read somewhere that the amount collected on tax over a vehicles lifetime is something like the cost of the vehicle when it was new. If that is true that would mean the government would have to charge 100 percent tax on the vehicle when it was new just to break even. thats never going to happen.
No doubt racing is going to be a huge problem, the Supermoto Guys and the Off Road Racers are going to have to step up their game too. BCORMA is not going to help as their mandate is "recreational riding".
We can only hope some of the tax collected actually goes back into our sport. There is a provision for a new ORV account in the new bill 13
Here is a copy of my question to BCORMAs ORV JAG
And BCORMAs answer
Still not clear of the exact meaning or intent other that the above, but there might be hope for some tax money to be returned back to the sport.
Hey, I turn my signals off!
I do agree that 12%, over and over is unfair. Dealer lobby beat us at that one, because they said private sellers had an advantage. The dealers now have an unfair advantage if one is trading a bike in, which I NEVER do.
Either way, that won't change any time soon so I won't waste time fretting.
I'm not totally opposed to the registration, but I don't think it will be very successful, except at places where ATVs in their many versions congregate and the officers have many to choose from. In the last 5 yrs off-road I've only met one officer, and I'm not sure the COs would take on that task anyway, considering how few of them there are in BC already.
As with most things, the honest will behave accordingly and the scoundrels will continue on as before.
Last edited:
woofer2609
New member
I tend to agree. We write a lot of laws in this province, but especially concerning motor vehicles, we are very lax enforcing them.
I'm not sure how, but we need a shift in what some see as "recreation". After camping in numerous places in Utah, I would be embarrassed to have a visitor come and see the garbage dump/shooting range that Harrison and Stave sometimes are. I think this Bill is a step in the right direction if it has teeth.
Taxes are a whole other topic.
Last edited:
Cultusking
New member
So if the dirt bike is older than 4 years I just get the guy selling to me to write the date of sale as 2009... BAM no tax (again), as for the plate, sure the cops will hang out around communal areas waiting for easy pickings while the dirtbags on the stolen bikes unload up the road and run-amuck, thats just nature. The honest will comply, the dishonest will continue as before- ignorance is bliss. If you get fined once in 2 years most likely cheaper than paying up-front and doing the right thing.
Do we need to police and check for stolen bikes- YES
Do we need to cover ourselves if some shitbag runs into us-YES
Most of us dual sporters have regi bikes anyways so who really cares, but now my son wants to ride and hes unlicenced, so comply we must!
Idiots will continue to be idiots, however this whole registration scam, I mean scheme may slow them down a little
Do we need to police and check for stolen bikes- YES
Do we need to cover ourselves if some shitbag runs into us-YES
Most of us dual sporters have regi bikes anyways so who really cares, but now my son wants to ride and hes unlicenced, so comply we must!
Idiots will continue to be idiots, however this whole registration scam, I mean scheme may slow them down a little
Better read that again Reese, it sez if you purchased the OHV prior to 2010 you have to make arrangements to pay pst. I am sure that ICBC will hand you a form to sign and that will be forwarded to the PST people. Then when they feel like punching up an unsuspecting tax payer, they will pull your name from the list. I think I will just pay the tax and move on with life.
Like it was said before, us dual sport people have been registering and paying tax on our bikes from the beginning of time BG = Before Gordo
Like it was said before, us dual sport people have been registering and paying tax on our bikes from the beginning of time BG = Before Gordo
farmerger
Member
This is what I saw the other day Tom, is this what you are referring too? This seems to start July 1, 2010, I say seems as its a little vague with respect to the actual date of sale of the vehicle.
In an other FB conversation (so take it for what that's worth) a fellow reported that he had gone in to a Service BC to register an ATV he had just bought. This was before Nov 17 so he was told the registration was not yet being implemented, but the best part was, they told him there was no tax to be paid on it either and sent him on his way. See what I mean about the gov having dropped the ball on making it known they want their tax on private sales.
Last edited:
r1200gsa
New member
Got my plate for the new bike. ICBC was about 96 dollars for the year, and I picked up some 3rd party coverage. It was the first time the agent had registered a bike, and there was quite a bit of confusion. I can't say I blame him. He was saying that there was a massive document that the agents had to understand and take notes on, with very little time for them to actually absorb the information. I'd suggest anyone thinking about getting it out of the way waits a little bit until they have a better understanding of the process.
Tell me, what kind of 3rd party insurance did he sell you
Did your agent tell you it would cover you on FSR and other Crown Land other than Highways?
The reason I ask I have been told that the 3rd party coverage you buy from ICBC is only for side of the road and parking lots, specifically for unloading.
tom
r1200gsa
New member
You pretty much nailed it. The agent told me that the ICBC part covered loading and unloading (including bike falling off of truck while loading/unloading), and highway crossings. The 3rd party insurance covered theft/perils/FSRs, etc.
He started telling me that I would need to contact the RCMP for Operation Permits regarding highway crossing allowances for each riding area, and I laughed and said that the idea was silly. No one will do that prior to going out (at least I wouldn't to be honest). Full text from insurance paper Vehicle Use reads:
"All Terrain Vehicle, snowmobile, snow vehicle. Other than farm, industrial, maintenance, landscaping or law enforcement use. Operation Permit may be required from local police. Coverage valid for on highway use only and in accordance with operation permit & Div. 24 of the MVA Regs."
P.S. Maybe I'm reading previous posts wrong, but I find it hard to believe ICBC will allow for a stickering system - after they spent the money making these plates. They aren't just old motorcycle plates, but are full sized motorcycle plates with the top section above the numbers a solid blue color with "Off Road Vehicle" written in it.
He started telling me that I would need to contact the RCMP for Operation Permits regarding highway crossing allowances for each riding area, and I laughed and said that the idea was silly. No one will do that prior to going out (at least I wouldn't to be honest). Full text from insurance paper Vehicle Use reads:
"All Terrain Vehicle, snowmobile, snow vehicle. Other than farm, industrial, maintenance, landscaping or law enforcement use. Operation Permit may be required from local police. Coverage valid for on highway use only and in accordance with operation permit & Div. 24 of the MVA Regs."
P.S. Maybe I'm reading previous posts wrong, but I find it hard to believe ICBC will allow for a stickering system - after they spent the money making these plates. They aren't just old motorcycle plates, but are full sized motorcycle plates with the top section above the numbers a solid blue color with "Off Road Vehicle" written in it.